Jihadists take the bait, threaten Florida church with suicide bombings

It is for this very statement that The Infidel Task Force cannot support the Koran burning. Maybe as Mr Spencer points out, it is a ploy to expose jihadi muslims in this country. It could very well be.
Burning the koran, as nice as it seems, brings us down to their level, and crawling around in Islamic muck is not our idea of educating the Americans on the brutality and blood thirst of Islamists.
Awareness IS the answer...well put Mr Spencer.
As we have witnessed with the Ground Zero mosque controversy, more people will open their eyes and become aware of everything Islam stands for. The violence. The brutality. The suppression of freedoms, and the degradation of women.
This is the only way to go. Let the Islamists move with violence, it only helps us.

www.infideltaskforce.webs.com

Forget burning that vile book. It is unimpeachable evidence of the poisonous, oppressive nature of that cult. Memorize some of the hundreds of murderous and vicious verses inside. and recite them for your friends who think you are an "islamophobe." Become a "counter-evangelist!"

" Awareness is a mightier weapon than a bonfire."

Precisely. This will substantially dilute whatever people like Robert Spencer and the rest of the team here have achieved.

Btw , the jihadists need to be reminded of the fact that it was Pakistanis who made a bonfire of their holy books during earthquake to warm themselves up. Till date no one has issued any fatwa against them.

[...] One jihadist website vowed to conduct suicide bombings in Florida to avenge the Koran burning,

Judge Wapner of 'The peoples Court' used to advice people that, 'When you are ahead, shut up'...But Mahoundians are not capable of that so here come the treats...

I agree with Robert's point of view but people that think that PC MC is the only way are convinced that a few generations from now, the Muslims will become more moderate and become PC MC themselves (just like magic). They see the current problem with Muslims as a temporary condition that will go away with time in a few generations. After that we can all hold hands and sing cum-by-ya. They think that time is on our side (which is horribly not the case).

We need to know the best way to change their pathetically wrong PC MC thinking. Book burning is definitely not the right way to do that.

Yes, I think this is a disatrous blow to the efforts of JihadWatch, Atlas Shrugs and all opponents of creeping sharia.

It paints all anti-jihadists as extreme right-wing radicals and is spawned by a "wing-nut", Pastor Terry Jones. I saw the man interviewed on Rick's List and Rick tore him apart bit by bit. The guy's a nutcase.

However, I don't recommend Muzlims resort to burning his church down. That would be a huge mistake.
If it does get burnt to the ground, however, the Pastor had it coming by organizing something this "stoopid". I only pray there is nobody in the church if and when that happens.

It is not only an outrage to Muzlims but it is terrible PR for the opponents of creeping sharia.
My Qur'an is getting worn out due to usage and now I am resorting to finding information I need online.
My other books are getting worn out including the "Satanic Verses".
I prefer to use the surahs as ammunition in the war of words.

The Sacking of the Sex Research Institute

The Nazis鈥� hunt for incriminating evidence was obvious in the attack on Magnus Hirschfeld鈥檚 Sex Research Institute on May 6th, 1933. As noted previously, the Sex Research Institute of Berlin had been founded by Hirschfeld in 1919 as a center for the 鈥渟tudy鈥� of homosexuality and other sexual dysfunctions. For all intents and purposes, it served as the headquarters for the effeminate branch of the German 鈥済ay rights鈥� movement. For this reason alone, the 鈥淏utch鈥� homosexuals of the Nazi Party might have destroyed the Institute. Indeed, throughout the preceding years the Nazis had increasingly harassed Hirschfeld personally.
Victor Robinson, editor of an autobiographical sketch by Hirschfeld, wrote in 1936 that 鈥淸a]lthough the Nazis themselves derived great profit from Hirschfeld鈥檚 theories (and called on him personally for help) they continued his persecution relentlessly; they terrorized his meetings and closed his lecture halls, so that for the safety of his audiences and himself, Hirschfeld was no longer able to make public appearances (Haeberle:368). Homosexualist James Steakley acknowledges the 鈥淏utch/Fem鈥� aspect of the incident, saying that some German homosexuals 鈥渃ould conceivably have approved of the measure, particularly if they were Nazi sympathizers or male supremacists鈥� (Steakley:105).
Ignorance of the 鈥淏utch/Fem鈥� conflict in the German 鈥済ay鈥� subculture left many contemporary writers puzzled as to why the Nazis would attack Hirschfeld. An obituary for Hirschfeld written in 1934 exemplifies this confusion:
There is a darker and more savage irony in the fact that the Nazis should have treated him as an archenemy; for the Nazi ranks are notoriously honeycombed with all degrees of homosexuality, and Hirschfeld is indisputably the man to whom it is mainly due that the right of these 2 percent of sexual abnormals in the masses of the European populations to exist and to function on their own lines is now a matter for public discussion and public agitation (Herzer:221).

The attack against the Institute, however, was not motivated solely by the Nazi enmity against effeminate homosexuals. It was also an attempt to cover up the truth about rampant homosexuality and other perversions in the Nazi Party. Hitler also knew that Hirschfeld鈥檚 facility had extensive records that could be damaging to himself and his inner circle. This was the reason for the raid, according to Ludwig L. Lenz, the assistant director of the Sex Research Institute, who was in charge on the day of the raid. His description of the situation, part of which was quoted previously, is given here at greater length.

[O]ur Institute was used by all classes of the population and members of every political party...We thus had a great many Nazis under treatment at the Institute. Why was it then, since we were completely non-party, that our purely scientific Institute was the first victim which fell to the new regime? The answer to this is simple...We knew too much. It would be against medical principles to provide a list of the Nazi leaders and their perversions [but]...not ten percent of the men who, in 1933, took the fate of Germany into their hands, were sexually normal...Many of these personages were known to us directly through consultations; we heard about others from their comrades in the party...and of others we saw the tragic results: I refer here especially to a young girl whose abdomen was covered with pin scratchings through the sadism of an eminent Nuremberg Nazi; I refer also to a thirteen year old boy who suffered from a serious lesion of the anal muscle brought about by a senior party official in Breslau and to a youth from Berlin with severe rectal gonorrhea, etc., etc....Our knowledge of such intimate secrets regarding members of the Nazi Party and other documentary material 鈥� we possessed about forty thousand confessions and biographical letters 鈥� was the cause of the complete and utter destruction of the Institute of Sexology (Haberle:369).
Burleigh and Wipperman report that the ransackers had 鈥渓ists鈥� of materials they were looking for (Burleigh and Wipperman:189) and that they carted away two truckloads of books and files. The materials taken from the Institute were burned in a public ceremony, captured on film, on May 10th (Steakley:105). The spectacular and oft-replayed newsreel footage of this event has caused the burning of books to become synonymous with Nazism. What information went up in smoke on that day will never be known, but we can be sure that the pile of burning paper contained many Nazi secrets. According to homosexual sources who were in Germany at the time, the Nazis destroyed twelve thousand books and thirty-five thousand photographs.
The building itself was confiscated from the SHC and turned over to the Nazi Association of Jurists and Lawyers (ibid.:105). This may perhaps be interpreted to mean that it remained in the hands of homosexuals. We know that at least Hans Frank, Hitler鈥檚 private lawyer, and the Nazi party鈥檚 star attorney Dr. Alfons Sack were homosexuals (Machtan:219).
http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm
========

Just wanted to get that out of the way in case someone tries to pull the old "only nazis burn books" routine without the real reason why they were burning those books...

Whether you like the quran burning or not, I'm sure the Christians involved have been made to understand that they have made themselves targets.

Of course, muslims who dare try to harm a Christian in Florida probably don't understand that Floridians aren't pushovers that can be intimidated even by death threats... One only needs to remember that hell has descended on Florida during the cocaine wars...

I don't endorse the action being taken... But, I don't condemn it either...

I don't hold with any book-burning, and the Qur'an has been a book of excuses for too many crimes to list. The Qur'an is evidence. It's silly to burn evidence.

I agree with Robert. You don't make more allies in the counter-jihad among the fence sitters by burning Qurans. But Muslims' opinion of the kuffar are already fixed. Their opinion of us is the same no matter what we do.

If they must be crude in their strategy to stop Sharia and Jihad, they can 'hang' the Koran in effigy. This sends a better message than burning it, which has too many negative attachments. Hanging it shows what they think of it without insulting our intelligence. I agree with those who say not to stoop to Islamic tactical levels, it is better to educate and raise public awareness of what is contained in that book then to sink to the level of Islamic mobs. But if they must hang it, explain what is inside this primitive ideology, chapter and verse, that offends us so much. Regressive Islamic Sharia based on the Koran is totally unacceptable in modern society. Ban Sharia, and that puts Koran into the spotlight, so all understand. A barbaric 7th century Warlord ideology for booty and slaves, especially women, is no legal basis for modern civilization. Educate people to know that, all people, even Muslims trapped in that regressive ideology.

As a former Muslim, I agree with Marisol that Quran burning or any other book burning for that matter, is counter-productive.

The wisest course for this church and for any other people for that matter, is to publicly expose all the vile teachings contained in the Quran. Let them have public readings from as many different translations as possible to disprove any nonsense about context or bad tranlations.

It was only by reading the Quran with an open mind that I realised for myself what a nasty piece of work it is. It was a real eye-opener. It has worked for many former Muslims as well.

Too many Muslims have no idea what their "holy" book says because they only read the Arabic version like parrots without any understanding. Their clerics naturally encourage this ignorance.

Sorry if any parrots were offended by this comparison, as many Muslims I know are far dumber than them.

Personally, if I had one in my house I'd burn it. Like counterfiet money, I don't need any. Just more of the real thing. Mr Spencer has a special job and needs to keep his to make us aware of the enemies ways. And he has done that. Thank you Mr Spencer. I am with you all the way.

Agreed, relentless discrediting has got to take preference over, for want of a better word, 'desacration'. The koran has it's place in history, albeit as a dark chapter and an horrifically cautionary tale. The story is far from over, and the tree of life, the book thereof, will put paid to the pain of false prophesy. I guess.

I own a Qur'an and read it as often as possible. It is very important that we understand the way the jihadist think. It's impossible to defeat an enemy that you do not understand.

While I agree that there are better ways to protest against jihadism, and better ways to inform the public about the jihadi menace, than burning books, the fact is that jihadis will attempt to retaliate against any and every effort on our part to ridicule them or to expose their nefarious activities.

We always have to be prepared for the possibility of retaliation.

Frankly, I don't give a flipping damn about burning a few copies of this useless Queer'an book. The Saudis will never stop printing copies of it so it is no great loss. I wouldn't hesitate to use it as kindling for my backyard firepit. Even with Mr. Spencer's help in translating this Queer'an book, I can't understand it, let alone remember verses to quote from it. It's useless info that clutters up my long term memory capacity. Just like the all the Muslim goons, I am retaining the right to resist Islam by whatever means possible. Burning a few Queer'ans is hardly comparable to the endless, insidious persecution and killings of non-Muslims all over the world that has been going on forever. I am deaf to their snivelling accusations of being victims and the Diasy Khans claiming "metastasizing Islamophobia". If they feel so ostracized in North America, they can leave at any time. Non-Muslims can read, write, preach, demonstrate for enternity because so far it hasn't stopped the cult of Islam. I am fed up with being politically correct and religious freedom to support Sharia Islam which is totally incompatible with Judeo-Christian nations. If in the end, I have to use a gun to defend myself, I would rather die blazing away against Muslims than to die a slow death in submission to Islam under a burka.

Thanks for the interesting history note grungyoldvan.

I totally agree with Robert Spencer, mainly because the majority of people are too dim to see the huge difference between burning a book and bombing people. This is still blaming the victim for instigating the rape.

BTW, burning a book is constitutionally protected, but is it wise? Sorta like building the Ground Zero mosque, huh?

I could care less if this vile book is burned in public. What's important is the symbolism of burning it and the message it sends to muslims. I saw a report on Dove church and its planned koran burning the report lead off with images of muslims burning the American flag. I've also seen muslims wiping their feet on the American flag. They have also used pages from the Bible as toilet paper.We also know that flag burning has been upheld as free speech in America no matter how outraged some Americans are by it. I've also never heard of any American threatening suicide bombing because the American flag was burned either in the US or in the Middle East.The fact that Muslims must resort to threatening murder to protect a so-called holy book is yet another indication of how twisted and depraved islam is as well as the weakness of islam.Since muslims cannot compete in the marketplace of ideas to defend this disgusting book.The reality is that in America if you purchase a book you can do with that book what you like burn it, spit on it or bow down and worship it. That is what freedom is about. BTW- You can watch a koran being burned on youtube.

If the story author, Adam Kirk, were more educated on the dark side of Islam, he'd have noted that the Saudi Government shreds Bibles confiscated from Christian travelers when they enter Saudi Arabia. Ditto that for several other despicable Islamic theocracies.
Somehow I don't think one tiny church with no known arms is equal a large terror-funding government. Will Obama agree for once?

If the story author, Adam Kirk, were more educated on the dark side of Islam, he'd have noted that the Saudi Government shreds Bibles confiscated from Christian travelers when they enter Saudi Arabia. Ditto that for several other despicable Islamic theocracies.
Somehow I don't think one tiny church with no known arms is equal a large terror-funding government. Will Obama agree for once?

This quote from Terry Jones the church pastor is interesting
and its what makes this exercise in koran burning important.

Jones said the radical threats confirmed his views of Muslims. "I can understand that they would be offended. I think their reactions--violence, threats, murders terrorist attacks--that only reveals the true nature of Islam which needs to be revealed," he said.

Nonetheless, while Islamic advocacy groups are likely squealing with glee at such a free shot at playing the victim, at least one set of jihadists couldn't contain themselves: "Islamic Radicals Threaten Suicide Bombings Against Gainesville Church"
........................

I think this sums things up.

I am no fan of Dove World Outreach Center's plan to burn Qur'ans-it is simple-minded and the imagery it evokes is disturbing. It isn't any sort of remembrance of 9/11 I consider appropriate.

On the other hand, we have the all-too-predictable Jihadist response, which is to threaten bloody mass-murder to "avenge" the insult.

Even in this case, and with an ugly example, "Islamophobia" simply doesn't compare in any way to the savagery of Islam itself.

Read the Qur'an. It is boring, boring boring BUT - you will conclude that Islam is a gun pointed at the head of every infidel on the planet.

Never Submit.

It's not as though they're burning all the korans in
the world so nobody can ever read one - it's not censorship - they're making a symbolic gesture .
And they've got the response ( the usual death threat ) that shows up the jihadi's way of 'thinking' .
Pity it might be associated with the nazis' book burning , when in fact it's completely different - just loook at the motives of the nazis and these American Christians .

Whatever happens , let's hope it works out well for
'the cause ' .

"International Burn a Koran Day" does a grave disservice to the cause of spreading awareness about Islamic teachings and the threat that Sharia poses.

From an Islamic-theological point of view, I have trouble understanding this. For isn't it that nothing happens except be it by the will of Allah, including burning qurans? And isn't it appropriate, in that case, to quote Muhammad:

"Only Allah punishes with fire" (as he asked the torturer to find other ways to extract knowledge from the Jewish treasurer).

Not that I mean to do any book-burning. But how can that be much of a problem, in principle?

Normally I'm opposed to burning books BUT this is not just burning of books. This is an in your face reply to people who operate under the "art" of intimidation. Intimidation is their tool they use to beat us all into submission and honestly I like the idea of looking them in the eye, taking their "holy" (sic) book, setting it on fire, and saying Yuck Foo. We need people to not only not kowto to these dogs, but stand up to them and show them we are not intimidated by them. I have only one copy of the Quran which I have read from front to back (what hate and what garbage it is), so I hate to get rid of my only copy. But I'm tempted to burn it (with concealed firearms permit and weapon on hand lol) in front of a bunch of Muslim supremacist fascist thugs.

Further they burned our flag! That's at least as bad as burning their book would be.

Beware the slippery slope; What starts with Koran-burning denunciation may lead to condemnation of muhammad cartoons.
:)Sorry, couldn't resist an innocent joke. :)

Seriously now;
I am against Koran burning not for principal, but for tactical reasons only.

May the author of the accursed book burn in Hell on a pyre made of every copy of the koran that ever was and ever will be made.

Strange, my comment vanished. I can't for the life of me think of a reason why it would have been intentionally removed. In case the vanishing was accidental, I will re-post subsequently.

Islam is one of the most tolerant,accepting and peaceful religions. It resembles Christianity in many ways.

So I believed throughout my college years, forgeting my high school world history teachers remark that it spread across North Africa by the sword.

Then in 2004, after growing suspiscion that there must have been atleast something in Islam that inspired violence, I purchased and read my first copy of the Koran (Rodwell's translation). I immediately understood that there was nothing peaceful about it. It is largely a rant and I would bet a months pay that five consecutive pages cannot be read where something deragatory or hateful is not heaped upon non-muslims.

As an American I was brought up to not hate anyone, especially an entire group of people. In school we are taught not to hold a prejudice against any "Race, color or Creed." For a time I believed this teaching until in my later teenage and early college years I studied about Nazi Germany. Race and Color has nothing to do with the content of a man's mind or character, but Creed is what shapes his mind and character, and is not deserving of any immunity from prejudice. Nazi-ism is a creed and one worthy of hatred. But it must be hated for the evils and falsehoods that it teaches.

I have a great deal of respect for our ancestors who exposed Nazi ideology to the American people and explained why our values were better and why National Socialism should be destroyed.

Since my first reading of the Koran I have gone on to read Ibn Ishaq's Sirat, and four volumes of Bukhari's Hadith. Robert Spencer's commentary and links to other Islamic writings have been tremendously helpful and enlightenting, in helping to explain the mindset of those who still support Islam.

Since my first experience with reading the Koran I have been convinced that if Only the American people would take the time to read and learn about it, If its teachings were just exposed, there would be an overwhelming rejection of Islam and a healthy intolerance of any disingenuity or falsehoods regurgitated for puplic discourse. Hiding the Koran, and its teachings is what our enemies do.

It must be exposed or sincere people will continue to believe the nonesense in my opening sentence.

Marisol,

My reference to that particular bodily fluid was not gratuitously impertinent, but had in mind the news story from five years ago:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158577,00.html

-- in which it is reported that according to the Bush administration, Muslims caused deadly riots over the allegation that a fine spraying mist of said fluid happened to have made contact with a Koran.

(In that story, btw, can be found a few other creative ideas, thanks to our men and women in the military; e.g.: "...[a Muslim Gitmo] detainee alleged that in one instance a female military guard threw a Koran into a bag of wet towels to anger another detainee...".)

NEW BLOG IN FARSI AND IN ENGLISH TO OPPOSE THE IRANIAN REGIME-CHECK IT OUT OR LET YOUR IRANIAN FRIENDS KNOW.

http://www.fozoolemahaleh.com/

Well I see a post where I included in the post Mohammed **** be upon Him (bodily fluid excreted after one's bladder is full) was deleted. For one brief moment seeing my "politically incorrect" comment deleted, I felt like I was on DailyKos.

Please lighten up on the political correctness. It is destroying this nation.

I respectfully disagree.

The koran burning would result in NO physical harm to any human. It is perfectly legal.
It is symbolic. The great Geert Wilders has even proposed it's banning.
This gesture of protest is no better or worse than flag burning and should be viewed as such. That a book, let alone the greatest book of hate in history, should be treated with such reverence? Oh, Pleeeeeez!
As for the suggestions made on how to counter izlam, they are fine. But the counterjihad is growing and it will soon be too large to conform to everyone's whims and tastes.
The only people who would be offended are be the enemies of America.
As for comparison with the nazis. That is getting really old. There are those who compare us to them no matter what we do. So SCREW THEM.
Alois Schiklegruber's son was a vegetarian, liked children and animals and was faithful to his mother.
So by using the same logic, these traits would also indicate nazism.
Sooner or later the sparks are going to fly. This is from a joke a recently read: "We ain't played cowboys and mozlems yet".

Sorry folks, but I have no problem with burning the koran.

Better to burn the malignant suras of the Koran~like 9:5 and 9:29~ o into people's awareness than waste a match on setting a literal book alight.

And looking as intolerant as the jihadis who burned hundreds of libraries during their imperialistic depredations across the centuries.

Simplistic morons behind this stupid stunt.

Muslims certainly don't hesitate to burn the Bible in Muslim countries..nor the American flag, nor political effigies, nor people they don't like....

Burn Mohammed in effigy, instead.

As represented in the canonical Islamic texts, he comes across as a sort of blend of Chairman Mao, Comrade Stalin, Blackbeard the Pirate, and Charles Manson or Joseph Smith; I don't see that burning the effigy of such creatures is in any way inappropriate, and besides, he's long dead, it's not the same kind of thing as burning an effigy of a living person.

It's no different from the British burning effigies of Guy Fawkes, on Guy Fawkes day; and Mohammed through his dedicated followers has caused far more harm than Guy Fawkes ever did. Guy Fawkes didn't succeed in killing anyone (though he would have killed hundreds, had his plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament succeeded); Mohammed in his lifetime ordered - or approved ex post facto - the murders of many, and rivers of human blood have been deliberately shed by his devoted imitators throughout the 1400 years of Islam's mass-murderous journey through time.

I would not hesitate to burn a statue of Moloch (to whom people used to offer infant children as sacrifices); and it is to the memory of Mohammed, and in obedience to the words attributed to Mohammed, that some 270 million non-Muslims have been sacrificed by jihadists in the past 1400 years - about 200 000 human sacrifices *per year*.

It would be fun to watch a pile of filthy qur'ans smoldering in a pile but not worth the commentary that would ensue from the pro-islam, anti-American MSM. It would only provide more fodder for their anti-Christian campaign and their eternal quest to portray Americans as intolerant racists and bigots.

They are either unaware or don't give a damn about the treatment of Christians and Jews in islamic countries and the Saudi ban on all religious expression except islam. They are probably aware but since they hate Christianity and Western Civilization so much, they defend everything that qualifies as the 'other'. It's sickening. I'm not too worried about the muslims burning down the church or carrying out their threats because they like to strike without warning. They're just trying to scare people; they're so tough and so pious, practioners of 'the only true religion'. Intimidation and violence are their trademarks, victimhood is their battle cry, and they are the most insecure, infantile creatures on the planet. It is very tempting to subject them to the same tortures they arbitrarily inflict, but revenge seldom satisfies. They aren't worth it and there are better ways to deal with them.

I think Robert is correct in taking the principled high road in distancing himself from this action of qur'an burning.

The public is finally starting to wake up about Islam, due in no small part to the tireless efforts of Robert and Pam Geller and Steve Emerson and others. All of them, but Robert in particular, need to continue to be above reproach in their choices of associations and endorsements. We will need their leadership and public voices in the awakening that is under way. To be associated with violence in any way, such as we all know could be triggered, either at home but most especially abroad, no matter how spurious such association might be, will undermine their efforts.

"To be associated with violence in any way, such as we all know could be triggered, either at home but most especially abroad, no matter how spurious such association might be, will undermine their efforts."

I'm still waiting for this mythical "backlash" to happen anywhere in the West. After ten years of the outrageous atrocities Muslims have been perpetrating, plotting to perpetrate, and expressing with their hateful fanaticism in various places throughout the West -- indeed, they've been at it long than 10 years, but it is only escalating post-911 -- any other society on the globe in all history would have retaliated with outbursts of backlash long ago.

I'm reminded in this regard of the movie about Truman Capote and the pivotal part of his life when he travelled to a small town in Kansas to research the savage murder of a family (which later formed the basis of his claim to fame, In Cold Blood). The director and writer of the movie was scrupulously careful to be historically accurate about every detail. What struck me was the collective reaction to the murders by the people of this small Midwestern town -- full of hicks and rednecks no doubt, and we're talking the early 1960s, even less "evolved" than now, right...? After the murders, the townspeople remained calm and dignified in their mourning of the dead, a family known by nearly everyone in that small community. Even after the shortly subsequent identification and capture of the two murderers, and all the time they were held in the small town jail awaiting trial, the townspeople continued to remain calm and mature. No lynch mobs, no frenzied tribalistic ritual of anger and hate. Only decent Americans patiently allowing the justice system to do its job.

These are all good virtues, essentially. When a real and deadly-dangerous enemy is aggrandizing its numbers within our society, however, such virtues can be cultivated to an irrational excess. Are we going to continue to be autophobic (afraid of our own inclinations), and like obstinately pacifist Amish, or like timid Eloi in the face of barbarians, allow Muslims to roll over us? Currently, the deleterious aspect of the irrational excess derived from those virtues of patience and tolerance that make the West great are being translated into PC MC.

All those who wring their hands about how we could "become like them" if we "go too far" are really only adding insult to the injury of PC MC: You are insulting your own civilization. There is no way we could ever "become like them". For us to "become like them" would be a feat as astoundingly mind-boggling as it would be if Muslims actually became like us. Western virtues have the DNA for a good deal more spine than many of you give credit for -- spine that is tough and righteous, and not to be ashamed of, and entirely in keeping with our fine traditions of laws and reason.

I'm sick of seeing many of you here succumb to the PC MC tendency to imply that the West has only two choices: 1) Tolerate Muslims, or 2) Form Vigilante Lynch Mobs against them. That is a false choice that reflects a bankrupt appreciation for the greatness of the West and its people, and more importantly it tends to reinforce a collective inhibition upon ourselves rendering our societies effectively defenseless against a metastasizing deadly danger -- because any measures that are proposed that have any real teeth to them in order to protect ourselves from Muslims tend to be flagged with the "oh oh -- don't propose that, or we'll become like them!" reflex spasm.

I rather think we are overlooking something, by laying the emphasis solely on the banning of books, which is indeed stupid beyond belief.I also seem to recall the Operation YouTube Smackdown, which is probably still ongoing as we speak and is organized by people who want to remove Jihadi videos on YouTube by asking as many people as possible to flag those videos as 'inappropriate content'. Now, I am wondering, as to how many people (apart from those that really want to make the effort) are actually going to read Quranic texts first, whereas quite a lot of people would get the message quicker by watching these videos and only then starting to read up about the Quran itself.

In any case, I can't fathom what's the matter with people who in a knee-jerk reaction decide they want to ban stuff from appearing in the public domain, and certainly when the security of the future generations is at stake. Giving extremist whackjobs freedom of speech is the best way to avoid all that. And seeing as most of these Jihadis are particularly candid about their intentions, it boggles the mind that those smackdowners can even assume they are doing us a service ! Some people never think twice !

Hypothetically, if we try to imagine a world where all Jihadi ideologic content can somehow be effectively banned, then Islamist ideology can safely go 'underground'. Nobody will ever be aware of what these people's intentions are in the long run. Banning books and videos therefore is dangerous on a number of levels:

1) It implies that a small elite can claim they have a sort of privileged knowledge about something that concerns us all on a global scale, something they will not share with the rest of the world.

2)By doing so, they are actually unwittingly helping PC/MC internationalism a hand in covering things up.

To me, that doesn't make any sense at all !

Simply put, you can burn the paper it's written on, but ideas (even the most despicable ones) can survive for eternity. Word of mouth is the only thing it takes for ideas to spread.

When the message becomes encased in the brains of Islamists only, we will stop being consciously aware of what goes on in these people's minds.

Which spells nothing but trouble in the long run.

Hesperado, I endorse Robert's position to steer clear of the qur'an burnings not for any particular concern about Muslims' precious feelings or sense of political correctness, or because I shy away from being labeled "just like them," but rather for purely tactical reasons. Robert is rapidly becoming a well known public figure and the principal voice of the anti-Islam movement in the U.S. He must therefore give thought to avoiding positions and statements that would affect his ability to operate as an effective spokesman able to reach more than his dedicated and loyal, but relatively small, JW audience. I can easily see Robert testifying before a future Congressional committee about matters pertaining to Islam. His authority would be much diminished were he to be incautious about who he is painted as associating with or endorsing, or if he is perceived as anything other than the serious scholar that he is.

You have been particularly persuasive in your descriptions of the PC/MC malaise that afflicts our society, in particular how it relates to Islam. It took some time for me to finally understand the full depth of your arguments, but I finally did. I think most JW readers agree with the general thrust of your arguments, although you may not think so. I have always wondered, now that you've made the diagnosis of the illness, why you don't turn your very considerable intellect toward suggesting practical measures for halting Islam in its tracks in the West. Ideally, it would include a political program, timetable and set of milestones for actually carrying it out. Think of it as writing a formal proposal or business plan.

Whether or not burning the book, many or one copy, is or was a good idea when the thought came to this man and his church, if he does not carry through with it, the muslims who threatened him will believe they have won another victory.

Jones has stated that the more he is threatened, the more determined he is to carry on with the burning.

If I was in the unenviable position of owning one, ...and yes, I know that to know what it says is important, which I can learn from others I trust to educate me, and from watching the actions and hearing the speech of those who follow it "religiously,"....if I had one, I would toss it in the garbage. Let the worms and other disgusting things have their way with it. After all, "all trash goes together."

鈥淚f the Nazis had taken over 50 countries and were imposing strict Nazi laws and oppression on the people in those lands, then burning Mein Kampf would be a very rational symbolic resistance to that oppression鈥� and he would be right, no matter how many Nazis it would have 鈥榦ffended鈥� -- Ghost of a Flea www.ghostofaflea.com

What is a religion?

Is ISLAM a religion?

Does anyone think that if the church in question gets burned down by the crazies, that will be the end of it? More likely, others will be inspired to commit more acts of violence against churches and synagogues here in the United States.

Agree fully with Robert's approach as to book burning thing... If we take the route the one we criticize takes, then where will be our difference... Our aim is not to revenge, to offend or to ridicule someone... our aim is informing against a very serious global threat.

Some people here think that it is important to inform Americans, Europeans and non Muslims in general about what exactly Islam teaches... it is so, no doubt, but... there is some other essentially important thing to do also: informing Muslims about the same thing!

It is difficult to believe it, surely, but it is a fact: most people that born and come to age in Muslim countries, as Muslims by family, do know very few things about Islam. Just this is the reason that they feel offended when Islam is criticized. The Islam they know is nothing more than a mental formation of wishful thinking based on simple human common sense.

This, exactly, is the reason that I always underline in my posts the need to have a very refined discretion when dealing with Muslim world... Most of Muslims do not have any idea of what their belief system teaches. And it is a vaste of energy going to a quarrel with them by ignoring this so essential fact.

No worries mate - The islam religion is no more than a cult - the followers that are attacted are weak minded individuals that can not think for themselves. It will implode as the world awakens and sees them for what they really are...

Robert is correct about art as a weapon.

September 11, 2001 needs a memorial and a symbol. Up until now, it has neither. In these times it is rare for an artist, a great painter, to achieve renown, however, there is a great painter who has achieved renown and now gives a great image which has been seen by thousands and called "a symbolic memorial"

When Marc Richard Rubin completed his modern masterwork "Atrocity 911", 7 x 14 ft, ( http://www.marcrubin.com/TANROOM.ivnu )the Progressive Left called it "highly political" and condemned it. But on June 8, 2010, Rubin erected a wall with wheels and moved it about downtown Manhattan to the accolades of thousands of people. He will bring it to the streets of Lower Manhattan again this September 11, 2010 (a Saturday)

From the lips of Marc Richard Rubin, "We invite all who wish to join us with this kind of memorial to please contact us by email: marc@marcrubin.com. For those who see this as a mere self-promotion by a Fine Artist, *!*&!!*, don't write to us"

This sixty-year old artist whose integrity is beyond reproach, has come forward to demonstrate to the American public how the Progressive Left has ignored great art out of fear. Their deafening silence is illogical to the myriads who have written to the artist. I will be there with my artist in all sincerity to make sure that the souls of the deceased are remembered and the atrocity of that day will not be forgotten.

As of this date, we are planning to present at the rally in opposition to the Ground Zero Mosque on the two blocks of Park Place between West Broadway and City Hall Park. (on Sat. 9/11/2010)

The power of great art is forever astounding.

Curator JD Rose

The OIC issues a statement found at: http://www.oic-oci.org/topic_detail.asp?t_id=4135&x_key=

Note from the OIC statement how this "peaceful religion" is subtly threatening to get violent if Qurans are burned.

And this "burn a copy of the Holy Quran was a motivated act of hatred and religious intolerance and that it was appalling and atrocious and went against all manifestations of civilized behavior".

I wish the felt the same way about the multiple beheadings and murdering of others, around the globe, who won't submit to Islam. When it comes to "tolerance", Islam, which is fascist and supremacist, is the most intolerant of all religious and political ideologies.

And this quote from the OIC statement: "The spokesman expressed fear that the burning of the Holy Quran which preaches peace and tolerance and is against killing of innocent lives, would evoke anger across the Muslim world and provoke unrest."

Translation: More of the same ole same ole, i.e. in otherwords "business as usual".

The problem with "reading" the Koran, is that it would yield no press attention.

I'm not surprised at the attention that the Koran burning has gotten in the Muslim world

Contrast that with say.....

"Radical Muslim Cleric calls for the beheading of Geert Wilders"

the silence is deafening and this should be pointed out, here at this site and even in the lamestream media. The apologists in the media will never point this out and the Koran book-burning does get their attention.

It would be a real kick to see the pastor do as Robert Spencer suggested and read passages from the Koran, but you and I both know that it will simply merit a two line followup in the MSM. Something like "Pastor decides to forgo book burning and read passages from the Koran" without pointing out any of the passages thereby losing the message of how evil Islam really is.