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  #1  
Old 10-07-2007, 06:14 PM
Bassam Zawadi Bassam Zawadi is online now
 
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Default A Christian Missionary Argues that Islam Teaches that Allah and His Messenger Are Equal Partners

Assalamu Alaykum

As we all know, there are several verses the Qur'an that state we must obey Allah and the Messenger.

The Arabic letter for 'and' is 'wa'.

Now this Christian missionary quotes the following from Qadi Iyad's Kitab Al Shifaa' to try and show that the letter 'wa' implies equality in partnership...

Quote:
A renowned Muslim scholar named Qadi Iyad Ibn Musa al-Yahsubi had this to say regarding Muslims joining Muhammad with Allah in their confession:

Qatada said, "Allah exalted his fame in this world and the Next. There is no speaker, witness nor anyone doing the prayer who fails to say, ‘There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.’"

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri related that the Prophet said, "Jibril, peace be upon him, came to me and said, ‘My Lord and your Lord says, ‘Do you know how I have exalted your fame?"’ I said, ‘Allah and His Messenger know best.’ He said, 'When I am mentioned you are mentioned with Me.’"

Ibn ‘Ata quoted a hadith qudsi saying, "I completed belief with your being mentioned with Me." And another one which says, "I have made your mention part of My mention so whoever mentions Me, mentions you."

Ja'far ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq, "No one mentions you as the Messenger but that he mentions Me as the Lord."

The fact that mention of the Prophet is directly connected to mention of Allah also shows that obedience to the Prophet is connected to obedience to Allah and his name to Allah's name. Allah says, "Obey Allah and His Messenger" (2:32) and "Believe in Allah and His Messenger." (4:136) Allah joins them together using the conjunction wa WHICH IS THE CONJUNCTION OF PARTNERSHIP. IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO USE THIS CONJUNCTION IN CONNECTION WITH ALLAH IN THE CASE OF ANYONE EXCEPT THE PROPHET.

Hudhayfa said that the Prophet said, "None of you should say, ‘What Allah wills and (wa) so-and-so wills.’ Rather say, ‘What Allah wills.’ Then stop and say, ‘So-and-so wills.’"

Al-Khattabi said, "The Prophet has guided you to correct behaviour in putting the will of Allah before the will of others. He chose ‘then’ (thumma) which implies sequence and deference as opposed to ‘and’ (wa) WHICH IMPLIES PARTNERSHIP."

Something similar is mentioned in another hadith. Someone was speaking in the presence of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, "Whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger has been rightly guided, and whoever rebels against them both (joining them together by using the dual form) …" The Prophet said to him, "What a bad speaker you are! Get up! [Or he said: Get out!]"

Abu Sulayman said, "He disliked the two names being joined together in that way BECAUSE IT IMPLIES EQUALITY." … (Iyad, Kitab Ash-shifa bi ta'rif huquq al-Mustafa (Healing by the recognition of the Rights of the Chosen One), translated by Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley [Madinah Press, Inverness, Scotland, U.K., third reprint 1991, paperback], pp. 7-8; bold and capital emphasis ours)


Is he misquoting Qadi? Does the word 'wa' really imply equality? How to refute this? Or are the Prophet and Allah equal in religious authority but not holiness?
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2007, 06:55 PM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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wa 'alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakatoh brother Bassam,

I believe the explanation of sheikh Ibn 'Uthaimin clears the misunderstanding:
قال الشيخ ابن عثيمين رحمه الله في شرحه للأربعين النووية - شرح الحديث الأول-:

((من فوائد الحديث: قرن الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم مع الله تعالى بالواو حيث قال: إلى الله ورسوله ولم يقل: ثم رسوله، مع أن رجلاً قال للرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم :مَا شَاءَ اللهُ وَشِئْتَ، فَقَالَ: بَلْ مَاشَاءَ اللهُ وَحْدَه [8]فما الفرق؟
والجواب: أما ما يتعلّق بالشريعة فيعبر عنه بالواو، لأن ماصدر عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من الشرع كالذي صدر من الله تعالى كما قال: (مَنْ يُطِعِ الرسول فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ )(النساء: الآية80)
وأما الأمور الكونية: فلا يجوز أن يُقرن مع الله أحدٌ بالواو أبداً، لأن كل شيئ تحت إرادة الله تعالى ومشيئته.
فإذا قال قائلٌ: هل ينزل المطر غداً ؟
فقيل: الله ورسوله أعلم، فهذا خطأ، لأن الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم ليس عنده علم بهذا.
مسألة: وإذا قال: هل هذا حرامٌ أم حلال ؟
قيل في الجواب: الله ورسوله أعلم، فهذا صحيح، لأن حكم الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم في الأمور الشرعية حكم الله تعالى كما قال عزّ وجل: (مَنْ يُطِعِ الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ )(النساء: الآية80)

As for his capital letters emphasis on the following text:
Quote:
Something similar is mentioned in another hadith. Someone was speaking in the presence of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, "Whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger has been rightly guided, and whoever rebels against them both (joining them together by using the dual form) …" The Prophet said to him, "What a bad speaker you are! Get up! [Or he said: Get out!]"

Abu Sulayman said, "He disliked the two names being joined together in that way BECAUSE IT IMPLIES EQUALITY."
First, I believe you should humiliate him for not understanding this utterly clear text and expose the naivity of this kind of arguments which pop up from nothing but delusions in the minds of missionaries who are obssessive with generating objections no matter how absurd they are!

Then, show him that the words are clear; for combining Allah and the Prophet in one pronoun (they) or (them) is forbidden for it implies equality between the two. Eloquency of speech as well as reverence of Allah require that we do not combine Allah with anyone in the same pronoun. This is in fact related to the other verse 48:19 in which the pronouns are singular because it is absolutely against ethics of Allah's reverence and eloquncy to use a dual pronouns.

I hope it is clear now.
__________________
In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:32 AM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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I want to add something . . .

The reason for this argument by the Christian missionary is his total lack of understanding of the Islamic texts. If you exerted every possible effort, you would be at a loss what to do to explain the misunderstanding to this missionary and his likes.

Qadi 'Iyad has explained the issue very well and made clear distinction between the places in which we can join Allah and the Messenger and the places in which cannot, and he quoted Qur'anic verses, Prophetic hadiths and sayings of scholars. What are you going to do after this detailed explanation of Qadi 'Iyad?

This intrinsic stupidity isn't unusual of Christians, and many examples can be shown to demonstrate this fact.

Take for example the report that says: (Jews used to say that if a man makes sexual intercourse with his wife from her back, the baby will be born with squint). This report was displayed in one of their forums with a comment: (do you imagine islamic medicine claims that the cause of squint is making sex from behind?!!)

All subsequent posts in the thread were laughing and approving!

When a Muslim ojected that Jews are those who used to say this, not Muslims, the smart Christian answered saying: (hehe! can you bring the proof from jewish sources? as I proved it from bokhari. tee hee.)

I challenge you to refute this smart Christian and his buddies who clapped to him.

Just to show you that stupidity is an intimate characteristic of these people.

Arab Christians are no better. In one of their websites, you find them objecting to the following hadith in Sahih Muslim that:
رواية مسلم ‏‏أن رجلا سأل رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم: ‏أأتوضأ من لحوم الغنم؟ قال‏: ‏إن شئت فتوضأ وإن شئت فلا توضأ. قال: أتوضأ من لحوم الإبل؟ قال: نعم فتوضأ من لحوم الإبل.

Can you imagine their objection?

They think that the Prophet (saws) made a horrible crime by telling the man (فتوضأ من لحوم الإبل)!!

You still don't understand, eh?!

Well, they interpret it that the Prophet (saws) ordered the man to bring a camel, then slaughter it, then cut its meat into thin slices, then make Wudoo' with it!

You don't believe me, eh?

they were actually very keen not to be minunderstood, so they used the title (يأمر الناس بالوضوء بلحم الإبل)!

I challenge you - again! - to refute this argument!

Do you think - my brother - that logic and reason works with these people?

In another article, they object to the Prophet's (saws) saying: I have looked into the Paradise and seen the majority of its people are the poor, and have looked into Hell and seen the majority of its people are the women.

The title of this article is (Allah is racist against the poor and women) underlined emphasis is mine.

And the author comments on the hadith saying: what is the guilt of the poor so that they burn in Hell?! isn't it enough what they suffered on earth?!

I hope you realized now that Christian intelligence is inimitable, and that it exceeds your abilities and the abilities of all Muslim scholars.

May Allah accept your fasting, night prayers, prostration and Zakat, and reward you abundantly for your work.
__________________
In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:45 AM
Bassam Zawadi Bassam Zawadi is online now
 
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i have kitab al shifaa' in Arabic. do you know in which chapter or page number Qadi is discussing this issue?
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:43 PM
Bassam Zawadi Bassam Zawadi is online now
 
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Bro Moumen

I was reading Kitab Al Shifaa', it is even said that some scholars interpreted surah 33:56 as only the angels sending the praises for they feared that the letter waoow implied partnership between Allah and His angels.

It seems like they are saying that the letter waaoow always implies partnership. But i dont agree with that. Context, states whether it is partnership or not.
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:19 PM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassam Zawadi View Post
Bro Moumen

I was reading Kitab Al Shifaa', it is even said that some scholars interpreted surah 33:56 as only the angels sending the praises for they feared that the letter waoow implied partnership between Allah and His angels.

It seems like they are saying that the letter waaoow always implies partnership. But i dont agree with that. Context, states whether it is partnership or not.
بسم الله .. والحمد لله

قال القاضي في الشفا
وقد اختلف المفسرون وأصحاب المعاني في قوله تعالى : إن الله وملائكته يصلون على النبي ، هل [ يصلون ] راجعة على الله تعالى والملائكة أم لا ؟ .
فأجازه بعضهم ، ومنعه آخرون ، لعلة التشريك ، وخصوا الضمير بالملائكة ، وقدروا الآية : إن الله يصلي ، وملائكته يصلون

ومحظور التشريك هنا ليس في الجمع بين الله وملائكته بالواو ، بل هو في عود فعل (يصلون) - وهو في صيغة الجمع - على الله وملائكته معًا ، وهذا لا يجوز

كما في الحديث في صحيح مسلم : إن خطيباً خطب عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، فقال : من يطع الله و رسوله فقد رشد ، و من يعصهما . فقال له النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم : بئس خطيب القوم أنت ! قم . أو قال : اذهب قال أبو سليمان : كره منه الجمع بين الاسمين بحرف الكناية لما فيه من التسوية
و ذهب غيره إلى أنه كره له الوقوف على يعصهما
و قول أبي سليمان أصح ، لما روي في الحديث الصحيح أنه قال : و من يعصهما فقد غوى ، و لم يذكر الوقوف على يعصهما


وقد ذم الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم الخطيب لأنه قال (يعصهما) جامعًا الله ورسوله معًا في نفس الضمير ، وهو محظور ولا يجوز ، ولم يكن اعتراضه - صلوات ربي وسلامه عليه - لأنه جمعهما بالواو ، فافهم أخي مراد نبيك وتدبر
!!


لهذا فلا يجوز للمسلم في كلامه أن يجمع الله مع أحد مخلوقاته - ولو كان نبيه الكريم - في ضمير واحد يعود عليه عز وجل وعلى غيره معه ، كما قال خطيب السوء (يعصهما) .. فهذا هو المحظور الممنوع الذي لا يجوز


أما الجمع بواو العطف فلا محظور ولا ممنوع ولا مذموم ، وقد جمع الله نفسه بالواو مع غيره في القرآن ، وجمع الرسول ربه مع غيره بالواو في حديثه الشريف ، وجمع الصحابة الله وغيره بالواو في كلامهم ، وعلى هذا سار التابعين ومن بعدهم من علماء المسلمين إلى يومنا هذا بلا اعتراض


هذا لأن الجمع بواو العطف لا يفيد التشريك أو التساوي - إلا في مواضع معينة -، بل هو يفيد المغايرة بين الله وغيره ؛ فاستعماله في الكلام عن الله يفيد مغايرة الله وتمييزه عمن سواه عز وجل


أما الجمع بين الله وغيره في ضمير واحد ، فهو يوهم التشريك والتساوي ، وهذا في حق الله محال
!!


أما بالنسبة للحديث : عن حذيفة رضي الله عنه ، عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، قال : لا يقولن أحدكم ما شاء الله و شاء فلان ، و لكن ما شاء الله ثم شاء فلان
قال الخطابي : أرشدهم صلى الله عليه و سلم إلى الأدب في تقديم مشيئة الله تعالى على مشيئة من سواه ، و اختارها بثم التي هي للنسق و التراخي ، بخلاف الواو التي هي للإشتراك


فهو حق لا مرية فيه ؛ لأنه ما كان من الأمور الكونية لا يجوز أن يقرن فيه مع الله أحدٌ أبدًا بالواو ، لأنها أمور تحت إرادة الله تعالى ومشيئته فلا يقرن بالله فيها مخلوق


أما الأمور الشرعية كالإيمان بالله وملائكته وكتبه ورسله واليوم الآخر والقدر خيره وشره ، وكطاعة الله والرسول ، وكالنصيحة لله ولكتابه ولرسوله ولأئمة المسلمين وعامتهم ، وغيرها مما لا يتعلق بإرادة الله ومشيئته فيجوز فيها الجمع بين الله وخلقه


قال الشيخ ابن عثيمين رحمه الله في شرحه للأربعين النووية - شرح الحديث الأول-
من فوائد الحديث: قرن الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم مع الله تعالى بالواو حيث قال: إلى الله ورسوله ولم يقل: ثم رسوله، مع أن رجلاً قال للرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم :مَا شَاءَ اللهُ وَشِئْتَ، فَقَالَ: بَلْ مَاشَاءَ اللهُ وَحْدَه [8]فما الفرق؟
والجواب: أما ما يتعلّق بالشريعة فيعبر عنه بالواو، لأن ماصدر عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من الشرع كالذي صدر من الله تعالى كما قال: (مَنْ يُطِعِ الرسول فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ )(النساء: الآية80)
وأما الأمور الكونية: فلا يجوز أن يُقرن مع الله أحدٌ بالواو أبداً، لأن كل شيئ تحت إرادة الله تعالى ومشيئته.
فإذا قال قائلٌ: هل ينزل المطر غداً ؟
فقيل: الله ورسوله أعلم، فهذا خطأ، لأن الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم ليس عنده علم بهذا.
مسألة: وإذا قال: هل هذا حرامٌ أم حلال ؟
قيل في الجواب: الله ورسوله أعلم، فهذا صحيح، لأن حكم الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم في الأمور الشرعية حكم الله تعالى كما قال عزّ وجل: (مَنْ يُطِعِ الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ )(النساء: الآية80)


والله أعلم
__________________
In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:42 AM
Bassam Zawadi Bassam Zawadi is online now
 
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Brother Moumen

This seems like an excellent refutation that I can put in my article. My Arabic is weak though, there are some words that I don't know how to translate, can you help me out bro Moumen? Your translation will go directly to my article.


jazakallah khayr
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:30 PM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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I wrote the above Arabic post to make things clear to you, brother Bassam. I wouldn't use the same way in answering a missionary for speech varies according to the audience.

If you want me to write a refutation to the argument based upon the above quotation of Qadi 'Iyad, I'd like to, but I'll be off for a small journey and will, insha'Allah, get back before Eid. I can then write the refutation if you like me to do, wa Allah al-Must'an.
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In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:53 AM
Bassam Zawadi Bassam Zawadi is online now
 
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jazakallah bro Moumen. please do so. My article is pending.
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:39 PM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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Bismillah . . .

The Christian missionary has come up with one of the most absurd claims imaginable; that is the use of (and) - in Arabic, (wa) - indicates partnership and equality. This is one of arguments that do fit missionary way of thinking.

However, one should sacrifice his brain to accept it.

In Arabic language, the letter (wa) - i.e., (and) - indicates either combination or succession. E.g., Zaid and Amr stood up. If I mean that they both stood up in the same time, then (Zaid and Amr) equals (Amr and Zaid), but if I mean that Zaid stood first, then I should say (Zaid and Amr), confer Ibn Faris, al-Sahibi, p. 157.

In the above exapmle, Zaid and Amr are not equal partners. Use of (and) doesn't imply it whether in English or in Arabic.

Actually one fails to find any justification for this missionary allegation except thinking malfunction.

what is even worse is their allegation that Prophet Muhammad (saws) is an equal partner to Allah which is in direct opposition to necessarily known facts of Islam. Prophet Muhammad (saws) said:
“Do not over-praise me as the Christians over-praised Jesus the son of Mary. I am His slave, so say: ‘God's slave and messenger’.” Narrated by both al-Bukhari and Muslim.

If use of (wa/and) implies equality and partnership, as Christian missionaries think, then Angels are also equal partners as in 33:56 { Allah and His Angels send blessing on the Prophet } and in 89:22 { And thy Lord and His angels cometh rank upon rank }.

Not just angels are equal partners, but even all God's Books and Messengers as in 2:285 { The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of Faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Messengers. }

And in 2:136 { Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma`il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them. } So the revelations given to Muhammad, Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, the Tribes, Moses, Jesus and all Prophets are equal partners with Allah.

Also in 2:177 { It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces towards East or West; but it is righteousness - to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing. } So in addition to the Angels, the Books and the Messengers, we have the Last Day as an equal partner to Allah.

Messenger of Allah said: "The core of faith is to make Nasiha". We asked: "To whom?" He (saws) answered: "To Allah, His Book, His Messenger, Muslim leaders and their laymen". (Sahih Muslim, Book of Iman, n. 55) Are we going to suggest now that all Muslim leaders and laymen are equal partners to Allah as well?

I believe you can see now to where this silly argument drives us. As I said above; one should sacrifice his brain to accept this incoherent polemic.

If this is the case, then what is the meaning of the next saying of Qadi 'Iyad?
"The fact that mention of the Prophet is directly connected to mention of Allah also shows that obedience to the Prophet is connected to obedience to Allah and his name to Allah's name. Allah says, "Obey Allah and His Messenger" (2:32) and "Believe in Allah and His Messenger." (4:136) Allah joins them together using the conjunction wa which is the conjunction of partnership. It is not permitted to this conjunction in connection with Allah in case of anyone except the Prophet."

The meaning is that partnership here is that of obedience as understood from the context, not in divinity or worship, as Allah (swt) says: { He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah } 4:80.

Sheikh al-'Uthaimin answers a similar question related to use of wa between Allah and the Prophet:
Whatever is related to Shari'ah (Islamic Law) is expressed by wa; because any judgement that comes from the Prophet (saws) originally comes from Allah as He said: { He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah }

As for universal matters none is connected with Allah using wa because everything is subjugated to Allah's Will. If someone asked: "Will it rain tomorrow?" and was answered: "Allah and His Messenger know best", this is wrong because the Messenger (saws) has no knowledge of this.

If someone asked: "Is this permitted or prohibited?" and was answered: "Allah and His Messenger know best", this is correct because the judgement of the Messenger (saws) is the exact judgement of Allah as He (swt) said: { He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah }.
(Al-'Uthaimin, Sharh al-Arba'een al-Nawawiyyah, the first hadith)

In the same vein we understand the quotation of Qadi 'Iyad:
Hudhayfa said that the Prophet said, "None of you should say, ‘What Allah wills and (wa) so-and-so wills.’ Rather say, ‘What Allah wills.’ Then stop and say, ‘So-and-so wills.’"
Al-Khattabi said, "The Prophet has guided you to correct behaviour in putting the will of Allah before the will of others. He chose ‘then’ (thumma) which implies sequence and deference as opposed to ‘and’ (wa) which implies partnership."


Since in matters of Allah's will, none should be mentioned with Allah. These are the ethics of reverence of Allah and exalting Him above any implication of partnership.

When one of Sahaba said to the Prophet (saws): "Whatever Allah and you will", the Prophet answered: "You made me equal to Allah?! Rather say: What Allah alone wills". (Ahmad ibn Hanbal, al-Munad, 1/214, 224, 283, 347)

So the permissibility of conjuction of Allah and His Messenger depends upon the context whether it is something related to Shari'ah in which obedience of the Messenger is equal to obedience of Allah, or it is related to Allah's Will which is exclusive to Allah and no one should be conjugated with Him as explained by sheikh al-'Uthaimin.

To be continued tomorrow insha'Allah.
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In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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  #11  
Old 10-12-2007, 05:57 AM
DrSalaf DrSalaf is offline
 
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Most excellent replies.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:24 AM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSalaf View Post
Most excellent replies.
Jazaka Allah khairan doctor Salaf .. I hope brother Bassam fixes any spelling or grammar mistake in the response.
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In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:13 AM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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The rest of the response . . .

Here we have put to rest the argument that use of (wa/and) indicates that the Prophet (saws) is an equal partner with Allah the same way Christians believe Jesus to be an equal partner with Allah (swt).

We have exposed the incoherence of the missionary polemic, now it is our turn to illustrate his ignorance as well: Qadi 'Iyad said:
"Someone was speaking in the presence of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, "Whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger has been rightly guided, and whoever rebels against them both (joining them together by using the dual form) …" The Prophet said to him, "What a bad speaker you are! Get up! [Or he said: Get out!]"

Abu Sulayman said, "He disliked the two names being joined together in that way because it implies equality."

The Christian missionary quoted the aove text as a proof that (wa/and) indicates equality, he even capitalized the letters screaming "BECAUSE IT IMPLIES EQUALITY".

The surprise here is that Qadi 'Iyad here was not talking about (wa/and) at all, rather he was talking about joining Allah with any of His creatures in the same pronoun as (they) or (them). This usage is utterly forbidden; this is the reason why the Prophet (saws) said to the speaker: "What a bad speaker you are!"

If the missionary came to us seeking knowledge and asking about issues that confuse him, we would be very happy to help him. However, he appointed himself as a scholar and expressed his ignorance and lack of understanding quoting Islamic texts whom he does not comprehend generating accusations and objections. He would have saved his face, if he simply asked. But Allah willed but to humiliate him and expose his glaring ignorance.

What is the excuse of the missionary not to understand the above quotation of Qadi 'Iyad? It is clear that it speaks of using pronouns joining Allah with others. What is the relation between it and the uses of (wa/and)? He even capitalized the letters "BECAUSE IT IMPLIES EQUALITY" indicating that he considers it as a proof that (wa/and) implies equality.

I find no excuse for the Christian missionary, the self-appointed scholar of Islam. It but illustrates that it is not his nest to mess with.

Praise be to Allah, and blessings be upon His Meseneger.

NB: I suggest you capture an image of the missionary paper quoting Qadi 'Iyad and publish it in your response, it is not enough to link to the missionary paper because they can edit it and conceal their scandal.
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In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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  #14  
Old 10-15-2007, 01:21 AM
Moumen Moumen is offline
 
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I do not know if this is closely related or not, but just an eye opener:
G. W. Bush, the American president, said: "God loves you, and I love you. And you can count on both of us as a powerful message that people who wonder about their future can hear." Los Angeles, California, Mar. 3, 2004.

Notice how he joined himself with God in the same pronoun! What a bad speaker Bush is!
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In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!
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