Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's
article
A Series of Answers to Common Questions
Question:
Jesus himself admitted that the Father is the only true God. Since Trinitarians
believe that the Father and the Son are distinct Persons, that
they are not the same Person, wouldn’t this prove that Jesus denied that he was God?
By Sami
Zaatari
http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_john17_3.htm
He Wrote
The person who raises this question is
obviously assuming Unitarianism, that there is only one Person who is God (namely the
Father), and then imposes this assumption onto the reading of the text. The only thing one
has to do in order to understand Jesus’ point here is to simply read the entire
context:
"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: ‘Father, the
time has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON
may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people THAT HE MIGHT GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL THOSE YOU HAVE
GIVEN HIM. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work
you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in
your presence with the glory I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN … For I gave
them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent
me … All I have is yours, and all you have
is mine. And glory has come TO ME through them. I will remain in the world no longer,
but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the
power of your name - the name you gave me - so that
they may be one as we are one … My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for
those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also
be IN US so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave
me, that they may be one as we are one: I IN THEM
and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you
sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. Father, I want those you have given me to be with
me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me BECAUSE YOU LOVED ME
BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. Righteous Father, though the world does not know
you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and
will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them AND THAT I MYSELF MAY BE IN THEM.’" John
17:1-5, 8, 10-11, 20-26
We note from the foregoing that:
1. Jesus is God’s Son.
2. Jesus gives eternal life to all that God
gives him, which is a claim to being absolute Deity since only God can give eternal life.
3. Jesus existed in glory with the Father
even before the world was created.
4. Jesus demands to be glorified by God,
something which no mere creature could ever demand.
5. Jesus states that everything that the
Father has belongs to him, which makes him the heir of everything that exists.
6. Jesus indwells all the believers, an
indication that Christ is omnipresent and therefore God since God alone is omnipresent.
7. Jesus is the object of the Father’s
love even before the creation of the world.
My Response
John 17 is a chapter I like a lot, the
reason I like this chapter a lot is because it proves that Jesus is not God!
Let me post some of the chapter
again which does indeed prove this:
Father, the hour is come; glorify thy
Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give
eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they
might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have
glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest
me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own
self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
So as we can see, Jesus says that
it is the Father who has GIVEN him the power. What does that mean? That means Jesus has no
power on his own and without the true God, Jesus cannot do anything.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the
men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them
me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have
known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have
given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have
received them, and have known surely that I came
out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
So note, even
better now, Jesus now says that ALL things have been GIVEN to him by the Father. This
means that everything Jesus said and did was from the Father. The miracles he did were not on his own, such us healing the blind, curing the sick, casting
out demons etc. God had given him this power to be able to perform such great miracles;
Jesus did not do this on his own. Hence this all proves that Jesus is NOT GOD.
Also note, Jesus says that now
they have believed that thou has sent me, so basically they
believe in the True God, because that was Jesus' mission, to make his people realize and
worship the true God, and that was the mission of the prophet Jesus. God had helped Jesus
in doing this mission by granting him everything.
So now once we read these
important parts, everything else makes sense.
Shamoun
said that:
2. Jesus gives eternal life to
all that God gives him, which is a claim to being absolute Deity since only God can give
eternal life.
So basically Shamoun's
argument is that Jesus gave eternal life, and that is something that only God does.
Well see, that argument would
work, but there is a slight problem. As I just showed, Jesus himself said that ALL THINGS
that he has are GIVEN to him from the Father. So if Jesus did indeed grant his disciples
eternal life then this only means that God the Father bestowed this great power on Jesus,
hence what it really means is that the Father is really doing it, not Jesus. Had Jesus
given this eternal life on HIS OWN, then that would be a different case, the fact that the
Father gave him such power shows that it isn’t something too special, nor does it
make Jesus divine. Had Jesus done it on his own, then Shamoun
would have a case. The fact is that Jesus did not do it on his own,
but the Father gave him this power, hence nothing divine about it.
Shamoun also states:
. Jesus existed in glory with the
Father even before the world was created.
Bassam Zawadi has a response to this:
John 17:5
5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the
world began.
This shows that
Jesus was there at the beginning of time with that glory, he came to earth and set aside
that glory and now wants the Father to send him that glory back again.
What does glory mean? It
means honor, praise, reputation. The Father already knew and had preordained that Jesus
Christ is going to come. Therefore Jesus’ honor and glory was there with God already
because God already knew about him. The coming of the Messiah has been talked about for
thousands of years before Jesus came. He had glory then, even though he wasn’t born
yet. Because he already had a reputation and god has love for him already. Look at this
verse….
John 17:24
"Father, I want those
you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given
me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I
glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one
who glorifies me.
Ephesians 1:4
4For he chose us in him
before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
END QUOTE
Every prophet has glory with God
before the world began, since he already knew about them and so on. So this is not
something special, or unique with Jesus, nor does it make him divine.
Shamoun also says:
4. Jesus demands to be glorified
by God, something which no mere creature could ever demand
Shamoun is reffering to these passages:
. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON may
glorify you.
AND
And now, Father, glorify me in
your presence with the glory I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN
Basically Shamoun
is saying Jesus demanded God to glorify Jesus. Well I do not believe Jesus was demanding God, reason being is because how can Jesus demand something from the
Father when Jesus himself says that everything he speaks is from the Father. Did the
Father tell Jesus that I demand you to demand me to glorify you?
Now why would Jesus ask God to
glorify him? Simple, note what Jesus says:
Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON may glorify you.
Jesus is asking to be glorified so then
he can glorify God, because without God honoring you, helping you etc, then how will you
be able to make people come to God? You need God's glorification to be able to do the job,
especially if you are a prophet. Jesus needs God's glorification and once he has that, he
will be able to glorify God and make people come to him.
Shamoun
says:
5. Jesus states that everything
that the Father has belongs to him, which makes him the heir of everything that exists.
Shamoun
is referring to these verses:
All I have is yours, and all you have
is mine.
Simple, the reason Jesus said
that all he has is the Fathers things is because the Father gave him those things! If
someone gives you everything then off course your going to say
that all you have is their things, because that person gave it to you and you have nothing
else. That is what Jesus meant, everything he had was from the Father, so therefore all he
had was the Fathers things, and all the Father had was Jesus' things since those things
really belonged to the Father and he gave them to Jesus, hence in reality Jesus has
nothing of his own!
He Wrote
The same Scriptures teach that Jesus is
the only sovereign Master and Lord:
"For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated
for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into
licentiousness and deny our only Master and
Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4
My Response
If this is true, then there is a
slight problem, because the verse says that Jesus is their ONLY master and Lord, what does
that mean? That means there is no other Lord and master, meaning the Father nor Holy spirit are masters or Lords and therefore we should not worship them.
He Wrote
Now does this mean that the
Father is not God, sovereign Master, Lord, and the Creator of the heavens and the earth?
The answer is obvious. The Father, according to the Holy Bible, is just as much God,
Master, Lord, and just as responsible for creating and sustaining the universe as the Son
is. In a similar way, the Son glorifying his Father as the only true God doesn’t mean
that Christ was denying that he is full Deity as well.
My Response
Yes, it does mean that the Father
is not the Lord nor Master. We do not need an explanation from
anybody to try and tell it does not mean that, all we have to do is quote the verse:
"For admission has been secretly
gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who
pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
Jude 1:4
What does ONLY mean? It
means no one else, it means they have no other master and lord but Jesus, if the Father is
their master then this means that Jesus is not the ONLY master and therefore Jude is
wrong.
He Wrote
In fact, a careful reading of
John 17:3 helps to further confirm that Jesus wasn’t
denying his absolute Deity:
"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, AND (kai) Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
The Lord Jesus, by using the
Greek conjunction kai in his prayer, makes himself the
necessary object of the knowledge that leads to eternal life. In other words, Jesus
basically made himself a coequal partner with God by claiming that eternal life is
dependent on knowing both the Father and the Son.
My Response
Not really, all Jesus is saying
is that they know about the true God, and Jesus Christ whom God has sent. In other words
this is another way of saying the shahada, there is no God but
Allah and Jesus is his messenger.
Secondly, how can Jesus claim to
be co-equal with God when Jesus says that ALL things has been
given to him by God! How is that being co-equal in anything.
Shamoun
then posts some commentary to show that they believed it to. Well The
text is simple, all it says is that now they know the true God and Jesus Christ whom thou
has sent. I do not see anything divine there, all it is is a confirmation of Jesus being a messenger and prophet of God.
This is the same with all other prophet, not only Jesus.
Shamoun
then quotes a few passages to prove that Jesus is God, no need to post that since most of
it has been addressed in many of these articles:
http://answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttaltosamshamoun5_1.htm
http://answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttaltosamshamoun4.htm
http://answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttaltosamshamoun11.htm
http://answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttaltosamshamoun11_1_1_b.htm
http://answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttaltosamshamoun24.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/john1_1.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/godtitle.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/onetexts.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/yhwh-lord.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_paradise.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_had_no_will.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/10_reasons_jesus_not_god.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_miracles.htm