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Cartoons in Egypt: Last October

From the desk of Paul Belien on Thu, 2006-02-09 10:22

While most British and American mainstream media refuse to print the cartoons "out of respect for Muslims," one of Egypt's largest papers Al Fagr printed them last October, during Ramadan.

Guess what? Not a single Egyptian stormed the paper's offices to burn it down, not a single Jihadist threatened to assassinate its journalists. And not a single Egyptian embassy was torched in neighbouring countries. French supermarket chain Carrefour did not boycott Egyptian products either.

Apparently Muslim papers are allowed to do what Western papers are not: republish the Muhammad cartoons. The Egyptian blogger Sandmonkey has copies of the paper on his website.

I wonder whether the BBC and The Guardian will bring this news?
 

Bob Doney

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:17.

Thats a good one, there you go, I'm a muslim and and I got a sense of humour, haha

ok

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:09.

Well My whole family has been tortured beaten driven away because of the colour of my skin, but I didnt choose to throw my anger at the white people

A New Believer

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:07.

I'm sorry I bought up a sore subject, but what I was trying to say was hells punishment is worse than anything you can dream of

I'm confused

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:06.

so what was your point?
who are the innocent people we attack? (please do not talk about the london bombings or 9/11, because the muslim people has agreed that the culprits are not of us)
If we are talking about innocent deaths, lets talk about afghanistan, iraq, the bomb in pakistan and in the future, Iran. the west has killed hundreds of thousands and they don't even get a two second silence. Are they justified?

Miah, you must pull your head out of sand

Submitted by hhs1999 on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:00.

Here you go again with your dumb remarks. Wake up and smell the coffee of tea ,etc. No one is a larger enemy to your precious Islam than you or people like you who defend violence against innocent. Pull your head out of sand and face the bitter reality or vanish. Islam=Hate and violence.

can you please explain to me

Submitted by yas on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:06.

can you please explain to me what you mean by muslims 'defending violence on individuals'?

have you ever studied islam?

There are no "moderate" muslims.

Submitted by Gordonz on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:55.

What's a "moderate muslim?"

"I share your rage, but don't torch that embassy."

It's a fraud.

Pretending to uphold the principle of religious sensitivity, while really only interested in this instance of religious insensitivity.

How many of these "moderates" have ever protested the depictions in Syria and on Palestinian TV of Jews drinking the blood of babies? Or the sermons that refer to Jews as the sons of pigs and monkeys.

Yeah, that sounds pretty moderate to me. 

You can tell how concerned Islam is with higher education. And they are going to pay for it in the end (actually, they are already paying.)

Islam is Ignorance

EDUCATE YOURSELVES, PLEASE

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:50.

Most of what "hhs1999" said can be said to non muslims, but on a larger scale, but it only is a true crime when it is comitted by muslims. no true muslims drink alcohol ( if thats what you are trying to say)
as for "Gordonz" who are you? apart from a rat in the sewer, who are you? how dare you insult my faith, this is exactly the reason why wars are going on (oh yeah, cause the west needs supplies of oils)
What logic? My people of my faith gave you the creation of soap, so how did your ancestors clean themselves?
May god guide and bless us all
ISLAM = LOVE

History of personal hygiene

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:15.

My people of my faith gave you the creation of soap, so how did your ancestors clean themselves?

With olive oil, among other things. Mind you, if people knew what modern soaps are made of, they might be happy to revert to olive oil.

By the way, do you know who your ancestors were? We're all likely to be descended from little furry mammals, you know, and they probably cleaned themselves by licking themselves all over with their rough little tongues.

Bob Doney

slime ball kidnappers?

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:36.

oh, almost forgot
Not that I agree with everything the taleban do, but everyone has the right to defend their from invasion, or should they be banned from doing that too?

Only Violence in Self Defense... Ha!

Submitted by Gordonz on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:35.

 Hey Miah... That's pretty good! And this week offense will be recognized as... disagreeing with me!

That is the beauty of the Islamic facist... they have the power to explain everything. Once allah is accepted as the first cause of everything that happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance. Logic can be happily tossed out the window.

Islam is Hate

to A New Believer

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:26.

"you are always wrong especially if you are a woman" I would like to apologies if you felt oppressed by me, but your anti-islamic rants are really racist, as a racist I would like to ask what do you have that is better than different racis, religions and cultures, I would like to hope islamaphobia is not a racist concept, I hope it is only because of missundersatanding's.
Believe me "new believer" you have not seen or been to hell, and trust me when I tell you, you would'nt want to.
May god guide and bless us all(even those that do not want it)
Islam = love

To Shuhell Miah!

Submitted by A New Believer on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:03.

I married hell and then I escaped and divorced him Shuhell Miah.. Do not say I do not know.. for "YOU" were not there with me..Things you will never know, things I will never speak of! The day you can walk in my footsteps do so! Until then look to another direction and "NEVER, NEVER ASSUME" that you know what another human being has been through. You might just be horrified and surprised!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

Pure Studitity

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 00:32.

Wow you people are really funny, you people are insulting muslims, what honour do WE have for your insults?
I agree with miracatt about the fact that we can't practise our religion without being labelled terrorist or extremist (before the jokes come flooding in, our religion is not based on violence)
I advise everyone to look at the case of Yvonne Ridley, she was a brittish journalist that got captured by the Taleban in Afghanistan, when she was realesed she became muslim. Now is there anyone who can say she chose to oppress herself? Why would a "free" woman want to wear islamic attire and be a "terrorist"? You foolish people don't see our religion does not oppress women or promote violence.
The images of rioting muslims are a disturbing, but they were taunted into acting inhumane(but I still feel any violence is unnecesary) our prophet to us is more important than ourselves, can you people understand that concept?
I would also like to remind everyone of the similar actions back in the 1930's in europe, these cartoons were directed at the jewish comunity, this eventually built up hate and anomosity against the jewish which people would say lead to the haulacaust.
Need I say more.
Please lets just get along.
Thank you for your time
May god guide and bless and us all

Islam = Love

Islam=Love, How ridiculous

Submitted by hhs1999 on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:37.

You Muslims are so ridiculous. Islam=Love is what you claim but I suppose you are blind to roadside bombing, Shiites killing Sunnis and Sunnis killng everybody else, etc.
Honestly, do you think readers are fools? Majority of you, not all, know very little other than violence, disrespect for human life including yourself and your family.
I have lived amongst you for two decades and was amazed how dirking was disallowed for all except at the Muslim gathering, how you allow yourselves to 鈥渨ed鈥 a woman for a few hours and not call it prostitution, how you are allowed to rape and steal from non-Muslims, etc.

to hhs1999who told you that

Submitted by yas on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:54.

to hhs1999
who told you that in islam muslims are allwoed to rape and steal from non-muslims?
and how about the non-muslims who rape and steal from non-muslims, examine the statistics!!!! (or islam the explnation for that too)

i totally agree
islam=love + peace (may Allah guide and bless us all)

I was the vicitm

Submitted by hhs1999 on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:06.

Dear writer, I was the victim of beating and subject to torture by Muslims although I served as a physician in local clinic, free service. My guilt, I was not a Muslim. Read, research and dicover.

Taunted into violence

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:08.

You foolish people don't see our religion does not oppress women or promote violence.

The images of rioting muslims are a disturbing, but they were taunted into acting inhumane

Some of them look like they enjoy a bit of violence. Can people be taunted into enjoying things? I don't know. You tell me.

Bob Doney

good point

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:18.

"Some of them look like they enjoy a bit of violence"
Yes you correctly pointed out "some of them", who are not following islamic rules, we can only resort to violence in self defence (another islam fact that not too many people know)
But it is a fact, the majority will suffer because people can't differenciate between the two, I'm sure the extra bombs that are dropped has a resulted of future terrorist, will please the unfortunate recipitants.
May god guide and bless us all
Islam = Love

Ever heard of the Stockholm

Submitted by A New Believer on Sun, 2006-02-12 00:39.

Ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome, where one begins to identify with one's captor's out of a need to cope psychologically! Also there is brainwashing! Put a sock in it and go do something useful, like vacuum your prayer rug.

Odin be Praised! Balder Save Us!

oh no, another insult!!!!!!!

Submitted by Shuhell Miah on Sun, 2006-02-12 00:49.

vacume my prayer rug? another case of facts causing a brother breck down under the pressure of hard facts that he/she does not agree with.
Please do your intelligence a favour and do a bit of research before making a reply.
as for your "Stockholm Syndrome" theory, she was actually treated with respect while in captivity which took away her concept that muslin are terrorist.
I hope you see the light.
May god guide and bless us all
Islam = love

To Shuhell Miah!

Submitted by A New Believer on Sun, 2006-02-12 01:15.

If she was with some slime ball kidnappers who took her to exert leverage on the West, then I am damn sure she was not in good hands. Do not lecture me about not speaking with you tenderly. One thing I have learned is if you do not agree with a muslim arab or muslim male period 1000% then, you are always wrong especially if you are a woman.in fact so far the only two "muslim males" on this blog that even remotely rate any respect or deference are Mr. Normandi, and Islam isPerfect ( I know he has tussled with some othes but has maintained a decent attitude with me), and maybe one other gentlemen. I do try to reciprocate the favor. But I am also coming to the point wheremany of you men can simply talk to the hand but I am not listening to bilgewater and lies any longer. I promised once I shed myself of one particularly disgusting muslim arab that I would never let another one look at me crosseyed much less speak to me with greater shade and that holier than thou righteous attitude. Dictate terms or tell me what to do. Keep your blessings, I do not want them and especially not from you and your god! Heard and sen enough lies thank you very much. I served my time in hell already! The "Stockhom Syndrome" is not a Theory it is a recognized psychological fact. As for the Light. The Light is in the Eye of Odin! It rests in Tyr's Truth! And shines from Mjolnir in Thor's hand! Resting within Freya's Heart!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

To Voltaire

Submitted by miracatt on Sun, 2006-02-12 00:10.

(You seem to blame the Danish newspaper for not having published Christian cartoons earlier)
Absolutly not. As u know we believe in all prophets. U didnt get my point, since the journalist realised tha Jesus cartoons would be inappropriate and could be offensive to many christians, why they seem not to understand our anger now? but again i say we shouldnt blame you for your ideas about Islam, thanks to bin laden and those who speak in the name of Islam but r only a bunch of terrorists.

(You seem to blame the

Submitted by miracatt on Sun, 2006-02-12 00:09.

(You seem to blame the Danish newspaper for not having published Christian cartoons earlier)
Absolutly not. As u know we believe in all prophets. U didnt get my point, since the journalist realised tha Jesus cartoons would be inappropriate and could be offensive to many christians, why they seem not to understand our anger now? but again i say we shouldnt blame you for your ideas about Islam, thanks to bin laden and those who speak in the name of Islam but r only a bunch of terrorists.

Mohammed 10 years ago?

Submitted by truth serum on Sat, 2006-02-11 13:07.

Has anyone given any thought to what cartoons of Mohammed would have looked like 10 years ago?

The cartoonist were asked to send in THEIR interpretations of Mohammed.   Most, not all, equaled Mohammed with terrorism in some form or fashion.

I pose that 10 years ago before Osama set Islam on this warring course with the West, we would have seen totally different (and more favorable) representations of Mohammed.

Of course, no cartoons would have been printed at all if Theo Van Gogh had never been stabbed, shot and had his throat slit by a Muslim fanatic. It was his murder that put the fear into cartoonists, journalists, and film makers lives.

Their own self-censorship is what Jyllands-Postens was trying to break.  Unfortunately...their fears were utterly justified it would appear.

To Grumpy

Submitted by miracatt on Fri, 2006-02-10 19:37.

well, iam actually convinced that it was no plot at all yet inappropriate. The cartoons show how they think Prophet Mohamed was, I dont blame them, thanks to bin laden and other terrorists and to your media brain washing.I don't think either we will get much further than this. Thank you.

What about in our schools?

Submitted by ipodman on Fri, 2006-02-10 19:08.

What about within our schools?

Hi,

Well this is now such a big topic hear in the Uk there is now a matter of whether it should be talked about in school.

I know of a friend who took all of the pictures and placed them on the school network so all student could view them, he did this to allow people to have their own view and draw their own conclusions to the debate. As no British paper have published them.

The student has now been excluded from school their future is in doubt.

Also I my view people cannot say they are bad without viewing all of the evidence first!

To miracatt

Submitted by Gorm on Fri, 2006-02-10 15:38.

Well, you still don鈥檛 seem to get in which context these cartoons were published in.
All religions have their taboos which only apply to the proselytes of that faith and NOT to the rest of the world!
To my knowledge the proselytes of all religions except Muslims use the democratic institutions of their country to resolve disputes in a civilized and orderly manner 鈥 Muslims issue a fatwa and behead their opponents.

This case has very clearly shown all westerners what an evil, brutal and barbaric primitive religion Islam is.

In the public space there MUST be freedom of speech, and that includes the right to insult. PERIOD.

Otherwise our modern prosperous democratic world would quickly a become brutal primitive dictatorship like most of the Muslim world is.

That was a bit uncalled for.

Submitted by grumpy on Fri, 2006-02-10 19:09.

That was a bit uncalled for. Miracatt: I was trying to be brief, and I did not explicitly answer your question. I'm simply honestly convinced it was not a case of "double standards". Can I be 100% certain? Of course not, how can I be 100% certain of someone's intentions? But I can look around me, and I see no proof of such double standards in our press. You on your side appear honestly convinced there was a "plot". That's what I meant with "agree to disagree". The point is that no law was broken by the newspaper. Also "freedom of the press" cannot mean that you have to publish every cartoon that is offered, as you appear to suggest in your reply, although I can hardly believe that you really intended to make that point. I don't think we will get much further than this. Good evening.

TO Grumpy

Submitted by miracatt on Fri, 2006-02-10 13:56.

well, you didnt answer whats your opinion about the journal double standards? and my reply to your question is no the response wouldnt be different, its a different issue where was their democracy and free speech when refusing to publish Jesus cartoons ? or does it only apply to Moslems. And sorry again the Pm refused to meet the embassadors and responded appropriatly only after the boycott.

To Miracatt

Submitted by voltaire on Sat, 2006-02-11 00:03.

I would like to add one reaction to your comments. You seem to blame the Danish newspaper for not having published Christian cartoons earlier. In my humble opinion, this has little to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means one newspaper may publish one cartoon (say, about Muslims), and another newspaper another cartoon (say, about Christians). It does not mean the same newspaper should publish them all.
I think the discussion is rather "Are there topics that should not be satirized?" - to which different people have very different answers.

To voltaire

Submitted by Poul Nielsen on Sat, 2006-02-11 00:31.

A newspaper - are publishing news. So when Jyllandsposten published the cartoons, was it because of a danish writer could'nt get anybody to make some drawings to his child book about Muhammed, because those persons he contacted, was afraid from the reaction from the local danish radical muslims.

At that time, a teacher, at the University of Copenhagen, was beaten up - because he read a few pages from the Koran. And since he was a "non muslim" - some muslims attack him on the street - in Copenhagen.

The Jyllandsposten asked the question, why couldn't the writer get anybody to make some drawings, to his childbook. That's the reason for the 12 cartoons - in Jyllandsposten.

Jyllandsposten ment - this issue had a news value in Denmark.

To Grumpy

Submitted by miracatt on Fri, 2006-02-10 10:49.

Iam sorry but this is not true . El fagr was the first journal to warn muslims about those cartoons and since then all our journals were discussing this issue and asking for an explanation to this. No one responded from your part and thats why Muslims decided to take an action and boycott your products. Please i would like to know your opinion about the same journal refusing to publish Jesus cartoons 3 years ago.

to miracatt

Submitted by grumpy on Fri, 2006-02-10 13:15.

What I meant is that there were no "demonstrations" etc.. Actually "nothing" happened between november and january. There is a chronology on http://www.esisc.org/Caricatures%20de%20Mahomet.pdf
but that is in french, my apologies if you don't read the language. The ambassadors did protest back in october but after that things quieted down. At least that is my perception.
"Noone responded from your part". I would say 2 things to that: first that PM Rasmussen did respond: he made it clear that he was not in control of the newspaper, and that he could not impose a decision ( the "freedom of the press"). Secondly, the "we"(or rather the "your part"): a regional newspaper published the cartoons, not the government of Denmark, nor "the west"... I think that is a very fundamental distinction. If the cartoons offended, a danish muslim should take the newspaper to court.
On the Jesus cartoons. So many things to be said really: 1. would the reaction be different if the newspaper had published them? 2. I have seen one of the cartoons (I think on this site) and honestly the quality was very poor. I can't say I "understood" what the cartoon was about at all. 3. "We" publish cartoons that make fun of Jesus, God, the pope, priests .. almost daily. And some of us are unhappy about them, but "that's life Charlie Brown". If you want to see a really offensive cartoon http://www.arabeuropean.org/newsdetail.php?ID=94 . This is from a Belgian muslim site. No comment.
Thanks for the reaction. I imagine we will have to "agree to disagree", but let's not start an endless thread. We already have a few of those on this blog.

No sure have impact!

Submitted by ortem2metro on Fri, 2006-02-10 08:09.

The Sarawak Tribune had published an article headlined "Cartoon Not Much Impact Here" together with the caricatures of Prophet Muhammad which sparked anger among Muslims around the world.
Now the Government ban even have the cartoon in our brain, So are we to chop off our head too.

Debra said: "I am quite

Submitted by Aman on Fri, 2006-02-10 01:51.

Debra said: "I am quite happy to let people believe what they want to believe if it doesn't involve hurting someon else".

that means: every thing has limits, and you can't let your belief in freedom of speech hurt other's belief, what do you think Debra?

Hurt

Submitted by Michael in London on Fri, 2006-02-10 02:28.

Aman - Debra is plainly referring to physical hurt (as in "I believe we should all go and behead the infidels") as opposed to hurting someone's feelings ("English people! Your Queen is a big fat hairy gorilla.").

If you "can't let your belief in freedom of speech hurt other's [sic] belief" then no-one would be able to write, or say, anything, eg, "I believe my pet cat is the nicest pet cat in the world" might hurt another person's belief that their pet cat was better than mine.. understand?

An answer to Aman

Submitted by Poul Nielsen on Fri, 2006-02-10 19:59.

Most of the people, who immigrate to Denmark - are getting well integrated. Anyhow we must say - we are having problems with people from african countries, like Eritrea, Ethiopia. People from India, Asia and other parts of the world are getting integrated quite well.

The people - who don't get integrated, are

1. typical 2'nd generation of immigrants - those who are dropping out of schools (but social system are doing the best - to take care of that). Maybe because of idendityproblems..
1a. Since we in Denmark have a lot of immigrant's from the arab world, some of the 2'nd gerantion children - are creating problem for themselves, theier family. But totally it's a minor group of those young children - wich are chreating problems. Most of them are well integrated.

2 Criminals from different countries, mostly from the old east european countries - but also from many other countries as well.

When we are looking at the leader's of the radical muslims - one of the Imams "ABU LABAN" - have most of his time (since 1986) in Denmark received social aid.

Source: http://ekstrabladet.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=333667

Anyhow he's not representive for the muslims in Denmark.

The news media - have nothing practical to do with integration in Denmark. They can report about several issue's - among those subjects like integration.

The only one who can do something about the integration issue - are the people who lives in Denmark and maybe the goverment. ;-)

to Paul Belien

Submitted by miracatt on Thu, 2006-02-09 22:57.

You should have asked someone to translate the comment of the egyptian newspaper on the cartoons first. Your journals are reprinting the cartoons as a challenge to muslims and to support the danish journal. the egyptian journal was provoking the muslims to respond to this insult and showing how offensive the cartoons were. Big difference.

to miracatt

Submitted by grumpy on Fri, 2006-02-10 09:24.

nopes. The point made by the Egyptian blogger was that noone did react. In order to get a reaction the "Danish" immans had to produce 3 genuinely offensive cartoons, and the muslim brotherhood had to get involved.

Reading the telegraph is like reading Pravda in the old days...

Submitted by Balder on Thu, 2006-02-09 23:09.

This could be another example of the phatetic reaction to apease the radical Muslims. But at we all can see it's a UK site (.co.uk) therefore it's probaly bullshit what they writes. According to Jyllands Posten Franco Frattini denies that he wants to limit free speech. Always remember that the press in UK is not free, it biased to please the Radical Muslims.

http://www.jp.dk/indland/artikel:aid=3547590/

See the following link for the explanation: http://www.eurunion.org/News/press/2006/20060010.htm

I wonder when Al-TeleGraph will make any comments.

The UK press is only adding more fuel to the fire when they support the actions of Radical Muslims bu denying the people in UK the facts.

to balder

Submitted by peace on Fri, 2006-02-10 21:10.

you said:The UK press is only adding more fuel to the fire when they support the actions of Radical Muslims bu denying the people in UK the facts.

ok

where is then the free of expression mr double faced

To Balder,

Submitted by Poul Nielsen on Fri, 2006-02-10 21:30.

Well the people in UK have a right to know - why the cartoon was published in Denmark.

The Radial fanatic muslims in UK, shall not decide that, since they don't represent the people in UK.

Last night Danish Television was interviewing some Imams in London - believe it or not. They were still supporting people, who would kill Salman Rusdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (member of the dutch parlement).

Religous leaders, must show their "leadership", otherwise they must step down. Support killing of democratic elected people - are not acceptable, by any standards.

Just a personal comment to Balder, I should give my regards to you from Thor ;-)

US here

Submitted by Debra on Fri, 2006-02-10 01:29.

That's sad to hear. Freedom of Speech is not something which is negotiable. The inability to openly and fairly express ourselves as human beings is a suffocating thought. No wonder these idiots act like they do. They aren't aloud to question life or their own faith. And, they sure don't want anybody else commenting on it.

I know many people on this planet stare in disbelief at the hatred expressed in the name of religion/faith. I am quite happy to let people believe what they want to believe if it doesn't involve hurting someon else and you aren't forcing your faith down my throat. I don't care if you think a rock is God. The Muslims need to get a life as do other religious fanatics.

Thank you from Freedom for Egyptians

Submitted by Freedom for Egyptians on Thu, 2006-02-09 16:42.

Thank you so much for bringing my story to attention. It is very important that everyone understands the dangerpus impact of the undemocratic governments that played Danish cartoons that were published at the heart of the Middle East in Egypt with no single protest.Thank you. Freedom for Egyptians