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HRK
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 26
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: Koran science debunked |
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Everyone who has some debunked koran science is welcome to post it here, just make a big fat headlinie of the topic, then things will be easier to find.
The Flat Earth
Thanks to liberate_ur_mind, Righteous and Zorasta_Russ for their help with this post.
015.019
YUSUFALI: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
Waal-arda madadnahawaalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli shay-in mawzoonin
وَالارضَ مَدَدْنَهَا
مَدَدْ = madad = protract , reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , sprawl , dilate , reach , range , unwind , outstretch , pervade , lengthen
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%e3%f3%cf%f3%cf%fa
020.053
YUSUFALI: "He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.
Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wasalaka lakum feeha subulan waanzala mina alssama-imaan faakhrajna bihi azwajan min nabatinshatta
الَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمْ الْأَرْضَ مَهْدًا
مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle.or bed, (verb) flatten , smoothen , smooth , level , cement , grade , ram , plane , roll , flat , level off
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%e3%f3%e5%fa%cf%f0%c7
043.010
YUSUFALI: (Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);
Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wajaAAala lakum feeha subulan laAAallakum tahtadoona
الَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمْ الْأَرْضَ مَهْدًا
مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle.or bed, (verb) flatten , smoothen , smooth , level , cement , grade , ram , plane , roll , flat , level off
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%e3%f3%e5%fa%cf%f0%c7
050.007
YUSUFALI: And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-
Waal-arda madadnahawaalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli zawjin baheejin
وَالارضَ مَدَدْنَهَا
مَدَدْ = madad = protract , reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , sprawl , dilate , reach , range , unwind , outstretch , pervade , lengthen
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%e3%f3%cf%f3%cf%fa
051.048
YUSUFALI: And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!
Waal-arda farashnahafaniAAma almahidoona
وَالْأَرْضَ فَرَشْنَهَا فَنِعْمَ الْمَهِدُونَ
فَرَشَْ = farasha = provide with furniture , flatten , outspread , pervade , circulate , cement , grade , unwind , stretch , expand , flat , range , reach , ram , spread out , lengthen , sprawl , unfold , level off , roll out , level
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%dd%d1%d4
الْمَهِدُونَ from مَهِدُ = flatten , smoothen , smooth , level , cement , grade , ram , plane , roll , flat , level off
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%e3%e5%cf
071.019
YUSUFALI: "'And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),
WaAllahu jaAAala lakumu al-ardabisatan
وَاللَّهُ جَعَلَ لَكُمْ الْأَرْضَ بِسَاطًا
بِسَاطًا = bisaatan = drugget , carpet , rug
from the verb بسط = outspread , flatten , flat , even , ram , grade , level off , outstretch , pave , level , smoothen , roll , cement
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%c8%f6%d3%f3%c7%d8%f0%c7
078.006
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
Alam najAAali al-arda mihadan
أَلَمْ نَجْعَلِ الأرْضَ مِهَادًا
مهاد = flat land , flat , plain , ramming
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%e3%f6%e5%f3%c7%cf%f0%c7
079.030
YUSUFALI: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
In this verse some muslims suggests that the Koran says that the earth is eggshaped. They claim that dahaha = eggshaped, but this is not true at all.
Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
وَالأرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا
دَحَا = daha=spread out , level off , level. The last ha = هَا in dahaha means this. So dahaha actually means spread out this, level off this, level this.
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%cf%cd%c7
088.020
YUSUFALI: And at the Earth, how it is spread out?
Wa-ila al-ardi kayfa sutihat
وَإِلَى الْأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ
Notice the word سَطَّحَ ? If you do a word search in an Arabic Qur'an text file you will find the word سطحت , feminine for سَطَّحَ
سَطَّحَ = outspread , unfold , unroll , roll , lengthen , level , range , pave , pervade , circulate , grade , reach , even , level off , spread out , prostrate , plane , outstretch, flat , flatten , even , smoothen.
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%d3%f3%d8%f8%f3%cd%f3
091.006
YUSUFALI: By the Earth and its (wide) expanse:
PICKTHAL: And the earth and Him Who spread it,
SHAKIR: And the earth and Him Who extended it,
Waal-ardi wama tahaha
وَالأرْضِ وَمَا طَحَاهَا
Further proof that the earth is flat
002.022
YUSUFALI: Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
Here is the verse in Arabic.
الَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ
الأَرْضَ فِرَاشاً وَالسَّمَاء بِنَاء وَأَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً فَأَخْرَجَ
بِهِ مِنَ الثَّمَرَاتِ رِزْقاً لَّكُمْ فَلاَ تَجْعَلُواْ لِلّهِ أَندَاداً وَأَنتُمْ
تَعْلَمُونَ
Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-arda firashan waalssamaa binaan waanzala mina alssama-i maan faakhraja bihi mina alththamarati rizqan lakum fala tajAAaloo lillahi andadan waantum taAAlamoona
I found an error in this translation. The word translated as canopy is binaa or binaan( بِنَاء ). This is what the word means in Arabic
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_2.asp?Site=0&Src_L=ara_eng1&DestLang=Ar&lpcWord=building
As you can see the word binaa or binaan( بِنَاء ) means "building". The heavens are as a multi-story building over the earth. There are seven layers or stories to this building called the heavens. The heavens are built on a "flat" foundation called "the earth".
The Tafsir Ibn Kathir says the same thing:
| Quote: |
These Ayat indicate that Allah started creation by creating earth, then He made heaven into seven heavens. This is how building usually starts, with the lower floors first and then the top floors, |
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1494
Also this verse on the setting of the sun in murky water supports that the earth is flat in the koran.
018.086
YUSUFALI: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
In this next verse we are told that its only the mountains who disrupt the earth from being completly flat.
018.047
YUSUFALI: One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.
Another very strong argument is how the ramadan gets all f.cked up because of todays timezones. A flat earth would NOT have timezones.
See this thread: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6402
Muslim Defence
"Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day And He merges Day into Night?" [31:29]
"He created the heavens And the earth In true (proportions): He makes the Night Overlap the Day, and the Day Overlap the Night." [39:5]
"That is because Allah merges the night into the day, and He merges the day into the night. And verily, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Seer. [22:61]"
Muslim claim: "Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night."
This claim is false, the gradual shift from day to night and vice versa would still happen on a flat earth model. The only diffrence is that the flat earth model would be lit up at the same time, there would be no timezones just the same night and day for everyone.
You can do the experiment yourself. All you need is a dark room a table and an flashlight. Then simply let the flashlight rise slowly above the egde of the table, just like a sunrise, and you will see gradual change from darkness to light. So verse 31:29, 39:5 and 22:61, tells us nothing of the earths shape they are just mere observations any man can do.
Muslim claim: "Verse 79:30 decribes the earth as eggshaped, more precisely the egg of an ostrich, because of the word dahaha"
This claim is very popular among muslims, but its very wrong. Lets take a look at verse 79:30.
[079.030] Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
وَالأرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا
دَحَا = daha=spread out , level off , level. The last ha = هَا in dahaha means this. So dahaha actually means spread out this, level off this, level this.
http://dictionary.ajeeb.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Site=1&Src_L=eng_ara1&DestLang=En&lpcWord=%cf%cd%c7
Does "Dahaha" really mean egg-shaped?
In Arabic, each word must be derived from its root. The root usually consists of three letters that can be manipulated, by adding vowels, prefixes and suffixes in order to produce different words with different meanings.
For example, "ka-ta-ba" (to write) is the root for many words such as kitab (book), maktaba (library), katib (author), maktoob (written), kitabat (writings) etc...
Let's now take the word you mentioned to mean egg of an ostrich, "Duhiya". This word is NOT a root. It is a noun and is derived from "da-ha-wa", the same root that the verb "dahaha" comes from.
Furthermore, Duhiya doesn't even mean the egg of an ostrich! This is what the most respected dictionaries have to say on this subject:
From Lisan Al Arab:
| Quote: |
| الأُدْحِيُّ و الإدْحِيُّ و الأُدْحِيَّة و الإدْحِيَّة و الأُدْحُوّة مَبِيض النعام في الرمل , وزنه أُفْعُول من ذلك , لأَن النعامة تَدْحُوه برِجْلها ثم تَبِيض فيه وليس للنعام عُشٌّ . و مَدْحَى النعام : موضع بيضها , و أُدْحِيُّها موضعها الذي تُفَرِّخ فيه .ِ |
Translation: "Al-udhy, Al-idhy, Al-udhiyya, Al-idhiyya, Al-udhuwwa:The place in sand where an ostrich lays its egg. That's because the ostrich spreads out the earth with its feet then lays its eggs there, an ostrich doesn't have a nest."
As for the meaning for the verb "dahaha", it's unanimously agreed on by all Arabic dictionaries:
Al Qamoos Al Muheet:
| Quote: |
(دَحَا): الله الأرضَ
(يَدْحُوهَا وَيَدْحَاهَا دَحْواً) بَسَطَها |
"Allah daha the Earth: He spread it out."
Al Waseet:
| Quote: |
| دَحَا الشيءَ: بسطه ووسعه. يقال: دحا اللهُ الأَرض |
"To daha something: means to spread it out. For example: Allah daha the Earth."
Lisan Al Arab:
| Quote: |
الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . دَحَا الأَرضَ يَدْحُوها دَحْواً بَسَطَها . وقال الفراء في قوله والأَرض بعد ذلك دَحاها قال : بَسَطَها ; قال شمر : وأَنشدتني أَعرابية : الحمدُ لله الذي أَطاقَا
بَنَى السماءَ فَوْقَنا طِباقَا
ثم دَحا الأَرضَ فما أَضاقا
قال شمر : وفسرته فقالت دَحَا الأَرضَ أَوْسَعَها ; وأَنشد ابن بري لزيد بن عمرو بن نُفَيْل : دَحَاها , فلما رآها اسْتَوَتْ
على الماء , أَرْسَى عليها الجِبالا
و دَحَيْتُ الشيءَ أَدْحاهُ دَحْياً بَسَطْته , لغة في دَحَوْتُه ; حكاها اللحياني . وفي حديث عليّ وصلاتهِ , اللهم دَاحِيَ المَدْحُوَّاتِ يعني باسِطَ الأَرَضِينَ ومُوَسِّعَها , ويروى ; دَاحِيَ المَدْحِيَّاتِ . و الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . يقال : دَحَا يَدْحُو و يَدْحَى أَي بَسَطَ ووسع |
"To daha the earth: means to spread it out."
Then it mentions a couple of Arabic poems that confirm this meaning. I won't translate the rest but anyone who can read Arabic will find this to be the definitive proof that Daha means to spread out.
Also, Ibn Kathir agrees with me in his commentary on the Quran:
| Quote: |
| (30. And after that He spread the earth,) |
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=79&tid=56944
Conclusion: While verse 015.019, 020.053, 043.010, 050.007, 051.048, 071.019, 078.006, 079.030, 088.020 and 091.006 ALL clearly states that the earth is flat. And not a single verse in the koran tells or even hints us that the shape of the earth is anything else than flat, the conclusion is clear; according to the Koran the earth is flat as a pancake.
Last edited by HRK on Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:36 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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HRK
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 26
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Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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A Qur’anic Understanding of the Universe
Written by: THHuxley
Among the more bizarre arguments used by Islamic apologists is the claim that the Qur’an contains scientific information that could not have been known 1400 years ago. Needless to say, the slightest bit of critical review invariably shows such claims to be entirely specious. There does not exist in the Qur’an any correct information that was not already known to ancient civilizations that long preceded the birth of Muhammad.
But that is not the subject of this essay. This article is designed more narrowly to uncover and explain the actual state of scientific knowledge that is represented in the Qur’an and the Sunnah. Specifically, we will explore Islamic Cosmology, in particular the Qur’ans understanding of the nature and structure of the physical universe.
To no surprise, “Islamic Cosmology” was not advanced beyond that of any of its ancient neighbors, and in fact is far less sophisticated and accurate in its understanding than the Greeks or Romans that had preceded them by centuries. While other civilizations had (for example) long before realized that the earth was a globe, the Qur’an betrays no understanding that the earth is anything but flat. But, I get ahead of myself.
Now, it is recognized up front that (as in almost every other ancient text), some of what is reflected in the Qur’an was meant to be taken literally, while some is allegorical or symbolic. But such recognition does not give the reader license to simply reject some descriptions which are obviously in error without good reason. In fact, the cosmology suggested by the Qur’an and the Sunnah is remarkably consistent, regardless of the specific purpose of the particular story being read.
This is because at no point was the purpose of the Qur’an or the Sunnah to describe the structure of the universe. In almost every instance, such descriptions exist only as side affects of the other religious or ethical lessons that were the real objectives of the texts we consider. If a detail of cosmology is contained in an allegory, yet itself has no allegorical purpose, then it must be accepted as the actual understanding of the author. So, while we have only a handful of direct statements concerning cosmology, a lot can still be determined from the occasional intriguing detail accidentally dropped by the authors as part of other discussions.
The wealth of such “hints” provide a compelling resource, and provide a clear picture of what Muhammad thought the universe looked like.
The Heavens and the Earth
Any accounting of the cosmology of the Qur’an must begin with the fact that the Islamic universe is extremely small and simple. It consists entirely of two (and only two) components; the heavens and the earth.
There is no recognition of any of the other features of the universe that modern peoples take for granted. There is no concept of solar systems, of galaxies, or of “space.” There is no hint that the earth is a planet like the other planets visible from it, or that stars are other suns, just very far away. Qur’anic cosmology is primarily limited to that which is visible to the naked eye, and where the authors attempt describe what is not actually visible, they are invariably wrong.
The fundamental status of the “heavens and the earth” as the two key components of creation is emphasized repeatedly in the Qur’an, and it is the “separation” of the two that stands as the initial creative act of Allah.
| Quote: |
Al-Qur’an 021.030
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? |
The exclusivity of these two venues is also repeatedly stressed. There is (for example) no third place within which things might exist or conversations might take place. Whenever the authors of the Qur’an want to make a point concerning Allah’s omniscience, for example, the phrase “in heaven or on earth” is invariably used as shorthand for the entire universe.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 014.038
"O our Lord! truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven.
Al Qur’an 021.004
Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."
Al Qur’an 022.070
Knowest thou not that Allah knows all that is in heaven and on earth? Indeed it is all in a Record, and that is easy for Allah.
Al Qur’an 031.026
To Allah belong all things in heaven and earth: verily Allah is He (that is) free of all wants, worthy of all praise. |
The “heavens and the earth” are also described as a sort of “container” within which the entire Universe (that man experiences) operates. There s only heaven, earth, and the things between them.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 021.016
Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between! |
Not surprisingly, the nature of this space “between the heavens and the earth” is described according to the straightforward (if false) perception of a human standing on the ground. Looking in all directions, the Earth appears to be basically flat, and the circular horizon gives the impression of standing at the center of a flat disc. Looking up, the sky (heaven) appears as a solid blue dome reaching its greatest height directly overhead, and anchored at or beyond the horizon. This is essentially (as we will discuss in detail) what we find in the Qur’an.
Additionally, the Qur’an is clear that when Allah created the heavens and the earth, the earth came first.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 041.009-011
Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds.
He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;
Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient. |
And
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 002.029
He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things. |
So there we have the basic framework. The earth is a flat disc, and the heavens are a solid dome (actually seven solid domes) overhead. For a look at more of the details, let us first consider the heavens.
The Heavens and their Denizens
As seen from the earth, the dome of the innermost heaven extends overhead, although in actuality they are more correctly described as seven concentric domes with the disk of the earth at their base.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 002.029
It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
Al Qur’an 041.012
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. |
These seven heavens are solid objects; this can be shown in several ways. For starters, they stand as barriers that both protect (as does a roof) and contain.
The protective nature of this roof is shown in verses such as:
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 021.032
And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)! |
And the fact that they are solid is shown by references to pieces of the heavens falling and potentially injuring residents of the earth.
| Quote: |
Al-Qur’an 034.009
See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance). |
In fact, they are so substantial that it is even conceivable to climb up onto them using a ladder.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 006.035
If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- (what good?). |
And finally, the heavens are apparently heavy enough to require physical supports of some sort. Contrary to some Muslim claims, the Qur’an acknowledges that such supports are required, but also explains that they are invisible.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 013.002
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord. |
The authors here take it as obvious that the heavens require support of some kind. But their emphasis is on their invisibility, not their actual absence.
To further expound on the nature of the seven heavens, we need additional help from the hadith. Here we learn the distances between each heaven, as well as what is on the other side of the furthermost.
| Quote: |
Sunan Abu ADawud Book 40, Number 4705:
Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib:
I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them.
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) looked at it and said: What do you call this?
They said: Sahab.
He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that. |
Ignoring the giant mountain goats which are never mentioned in the Qur’an itself, the outermost heaven lies beneath a sea that is as deep as the distances between adjacent heavens. That Allah’s “throne” is above such waters is mentioned in the Qur’an as well as the hadith.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 011.007
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!" |
There are however no mentions of galaxies, quasars, galaxy clusters or empty space. Simply water, a throne, and Allah himself.
Additional details concerning the individual heavens are found in the accounts of Muhammad’s “night journey.” Rather than quoting at length, readers are referred to Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 608 for the long version. But here are the key points.
Each of the seven heavens is populated by multiple angels and a few other folks as well. These heavens are entered through doors in the solid domes, each with an angelic guard and each populated by a resident prophet. For example, immediately above the dome of the first heaven is where Muhammad met Adam, and discovered (in the absence of true geographic knowledge) the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The second heaven is the home of the Prophet Idris. Aaron is in the fourth heaven, Abraham the sixth, and Moses the seventh.
The Celestial Objects:
Inside the nearest heaven (i.e. less than 73 years away) are the stars and (apparently) also the sun and moon. We can be certain that the stars are inside this closest heaven, as the Qur’an is quite explicit on this point.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 037.006
We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
Al Qur’an 041.012
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge. |
The idea that the stars might actually be objects on the scale of the sun, but much farther away was clearly missed by the authors of the Qur’an.
The Sun and the Moon:
The sun and moon are a bit more ambiguous, as all we know is that they are in the “midst” of the heavens, and not explicitly inside the lowest of them.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 071.016
And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp? |
These two lights (along with the stars and planets) follow prescribed paths along the curved walls of the solid heavenly domes.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 021.033
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
Al Qur’an 036.040
It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law). |
And at the end of their daily paths across the sky, the sun (and presumably also the moon and stars) pass through the earth’s flat disk near the far Western edge using openings filled with water.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 018.086
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." |
Once out of view of the humans that populate the top of the earthly disc, their motion stops, and they rest for the night in particular resting places.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 036.038
And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. |
At some point during the night, however (and here again we call to the hadith for details) the sun must negotiate its return the next day with a direct appeal for Allah’s permission.
| Quote: |
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.3 |
With permission to rise received, the sun passes back through the earthly disk near its Eastern edge to commence the next day. While no “muddy pools” are specifically mentioned for the sunrise, the description of people living nearby the exit point mirrors the description of the place where the sun set.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 018.090
Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. |
Eclipses of the Sun or Moon:
The Qur’an demonstrates no understanding whatsoever of of eclipses. Perhaps this is understandable. The hadith claim that Muhammad only experienced one solar eclipse during his lifetime, an experience which frightened him into a spectacular act of piety. But the Qur’an only makes (as far as I have been able to find) a single reference to eclipses, and that is a lunar eclipse that will take place at the end of the world.
In fact, the Qur’an actually makes a statement that would conceivably make eclipses impossible.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 036.040
It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law). |
For a solar eclipse to occur however, the sun and the moon actually must (from the perspective of the earth) "catch up" to each other in their "orbits." But since the moon itself is not visible at that time, the authors of the Qur'an never noticed this.
But then, when discussing the end of time the Qur’an assumes that a lunar eclipse (which can only occur when the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth) can occur at the same time the sun and moon finally do “catch up” to each other.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 075.00-0096
He asketh: “When will be this Day of Resurrection?” |
But when sight is confounded
And the moon is eclipsed
And sun and moon are united,
The “uniting” of the sun and the moon not only demonstrate a singular instance when they do “catch up” with each other, but also indicate that the authors of the Qur’an believed they were comparable in size. This is of course only an illusion of comparative distance.
Night and Day:
The fact that the authors of the Qur’an did not realize that the sun and moon actually cause eclipses (as opposed to simply experiencing them) is similar to their failure to realize that the sun actually causes day and night. In the Qur’an, night is not simply the absence of day. Night and day are each specific, tangible creations of Allah, and they engage in a form of balanced conflict independent of the celestial bodies.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 003.027
"Thou causest the night to gain on the day, and thou causest the day to gain on the night; Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest, without measure."
Al Qur’an 003.190
Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,
Al Qur’an 013.003
He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!
Al Qur’an 022.061
That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things). |
Day and night are clearly entities independent from the sun, moon or any other celestial objects. Even when considered in the same verse, night and day are independent of the sun, with no recognition that the sun causes either of them.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 007.054
Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!
Al Qur’an 014.033
And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.
Al Qur’an 021.033
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
Al Qur’an 031.029
Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?
Al Qur’an 039.005
He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? |
So, if the sun does not cause day and night, what is its purpose other than merely being the brighter of the two major celestial lamps?
Well, it turns out that the purpose of these objects is primarily time and calendar keeping.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 006.096
He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.
Al Qur’an 010.005
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand. |
The Stars, Planets and Meteors:
It is not obvious from the translations of the Qur’an that the authors of the Qur’an actually distinguished between stars and planets, as the same word is often translated to mean either. But as ancient peoples generally knew that planets were different from ordinary stars (they moved) it is a safe assumption that the earliest Muslims were equally aware.
But the mistaken (if understandable) belief that stars are very small nearby objects is not merely reflected in the placement of them inside the nearest dome. As with most other ancient people, the authors of the Qur’an believed that meteors literally were “falling stars.” Yet with the unmistakable flavor of Arab martial creativity, they do not fall without purpose. They are weapons against devils and jinn.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 067.005
And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire. |
This appears to be part of the protective role of the heavens.
| Quote: |
Al Qur'an 072.008
And (the Jinn who had listened to the Qur'an said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors. |
The Earth and its Denizens:
The authors of the Qur’an felt a lesser need to describe the nature of the earth than the heavens, since much of the earth’s nature was obvious to the people that lived upon it. There was simply much less to explain. But the descriptions that do exist provide us with unassailable conclusions.
First and foremost, the earth is flat. Repeatedly, the authors of the Qur’an use same word to describe the “spreading out” of the earth that Arabs used to discuss the spreading out of a “carpet,” a usage that translators often make use of.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 015.019
And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
Al Qu’ran 020.053
"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.
Al Qur’an 43.010
(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);
Al Qur’an 050.007
And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-
Al Qur’an 051.048
And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out! |
In fact, at one point the Qur’an even emphasizes how much flatter the earth would be were it not for the mountains that disrupt the view.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 018.047
One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them. |
And in the same way one would stake down a tent or a carpet to keep it from shifting or blowing away, the mountains are described as serving this same purpose.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 016.015
And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;
Al Qur’an 078.007
And the mountains as pegs? |
Perhaps the one unclear facet of Islamic cosmology is the fact that the Qur’an mentions without explanation that there are (like the heavens), seven earths:
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 065.012
Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. |
The seven concentric domes of the heavens are fairly straightforward. The seven different earths are a bit more difficult to picture. One hint is given by the Qur’ans mention that in the same way “things” can “come down from” or “mount up to” the heavens, there are also things that can “come forth out of” or “enter within” the earth.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 057.004
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do. |
This leads to the conclusion that the seven earths are stacked one atop the other, similar to a stack of coins. This conclusion would certainly help us solve the one great remaining cosmological puzzle.
Where are Paradise and Hell?
Islamic cosmology takes a perfectly prosaic position in terms of Paradise and Hell, and places them firmly within the cosmos that consists of the heavens and the earth. The description of Muhammad’s “night journey” shows each of the seven heavens already populated with the departed prophets in Paradise. This is consistent with the Qur’ans description of the size of Paradise.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 003.133
Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-
Al Qur’an 057.021
Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding. |
If the heavens (to include the seventh and largest) are already populated with denizens of Paradise, the width of Paradise would be precisely that of heaven and earth.
And since Paradise is on the other side of the first heaven, it follows that Hell is below the surface of the first earth, filling the spaces beneath and between the seven earths. This is consistent with the descriptions of hell as being a completely enclosed place.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 007.041
For them there is Hell, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.
Al Qur’an 009.049
Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides). |
Further, the direction of hell, when it is mentioned, is invariably “down.”
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 052.013
That Day shall they be thrust down to the Fire of Hell, irresistibly. |
Elsewhere, it is described as an underground dungeon.
| Quote: |
Al Qur’an 017.008
It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers. |
And in yet another reference, an observer is directed to “look down” in order to witness a denizen of hell.
| Quote: |
Al Qur'an 037.054-055
(A voice) said: "Would ye like to look down?" |
He looked down and saw him in the midst of the Fire.
And so, we have the Islamic Universe in completion.
Summary:
The Qur’an is not a book of science. As such, it makes no extended effort to describe the cosmos in the way a textbook might. Yet dealing as it does with universal questions of creation, purpose and fate it cannot avoid revealing its cosmological framework as it describes the workings of Allah.
In so doing, while it never comes out and says “this is the form of the universe,” a consistent and comprehensive cosmology still reveals itself. And to no surprise, this proves to be the mythical cosmos of 7th century Arabia rather than an accurate description of the real universe.
In the Qur’an, the entire universe is very small and contains simply the earth and its surrounding heavens. There are no galaxies, other solar systems, or such a thing as “outer space.”
The earth is the top-most of seven, flat discs, surrounded by the seven solid concentric domes of the heavens. The celestial objects that do exist (sun, moon, stars and planets) are quite small, very close, and they follow semi-circular paths within the innermost of the seven heavenly domes. When they are not in the sky above the earth, they are resting somewhere underneath it, except while petitioning Allah’s permission to return the following day (or night). Paradise exists between the seven heavens, and hell exists between the seven earths.
All of this is submerged in a cosmic sea, above which is the throne of Allah.
And Allah knows best.
Last edited by HRK on Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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a_student

Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 865 Location: Seventh Heaven
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Please see my writings at http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=26658#26658 about the seven heavens. I believe the distance between them to be 500 years, as the 72 year distance hadith is preceded by other ahadith mentioning 72 in other contexts. _________________ "There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he really doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not." -Graham Chapman |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:05 am Post subject: |
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I hesitated to put my articles here but what the heck.
QURAN PREDICTED LAND DECREASING
INTRODUCTION
Dr Al Zeiny, PhD, claims a ‘so-called’ proof of Quranic Science by positing the proposition that the Quran correctly predicted the geological fact that land is decreasing due to the movements of tectonic plates. He cites verses 13:41 and 21:44 as evidence.
INTRODUCTION
Dr Al Zeiny, PhD, claims a ‘so-called’ proof of Quranic Science by positing the proposition that the Quran correctly predicted the geological fact that land is decreasing due to the movements of tectonic plates. He cites verses 13:41 and 21:44 as evidence.
ANALYSIS
| Quote: |
Quran and Modern Science
Dr. Al Zeiny, Ph.D. in Civil Engineering
Koranic School Graduate
Assistant Professor of Civil Engineering
University of Evansville
http://www2.evansville.edu/msa/PagesForNonMuslims/Lectures/KoranMiracles/Islam&Science.pps
Land is decreasing due to the movements of tectonic plates.
Don’t they See that We gradually reduce the land from its outlying boundaries? Where God commands, there is none to put back His command (Quran 13:41)
Indeed we gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; don’t they see our ability in reducing the land from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win? (Quran 21:44) |
The presumption is that continental land is decreasing due to convergence of tectonic plates, leading to either subduction or continental collision. What Dr Zeiny neglects to mention is that, according to the Theory of Plate Tectonics, convergence must equal divergence. This is particularly true if the size of the earth is constant (though some earth scientists believe an expanding earth hypothesis). http://www.edison.edu/course_material/ABrylske/Notes/oce1001_notes3.pdf
Secondly, the tectonic plate map shows that subduction is by far the more common convergence phenomenon (compared to continental collision). Subduction occurs only with oceanic lithosphere as only oceanic lithosphere is dense enough to be subducted. Therefore, in subduction the colliding continental crust is not significantly reduced, and may increase due to subduction-related volcanic activity. http://www.oswego.edu/Acad_Dept/a_and_s/earth.sci/geo_geochem/geol/geo100/platetc.pdf
In fact, partial melting of the subducting lithosphere leads to the production of andesite, which is the major building block of continental crust. In other words, continental crust was produced by subduction activity. http://www.geol.umd.edu/pages/faculty/WALKER/GEOL212/212Topic5PP.pdf
Thirdly, while continental collision may reduce land surface due to elevation of the continental crust on impact, it is unclear whether this leads to overall reduction in land surface area if rift activity is taken into account.
Therefore, in theory, convergence of tectonic plates may not reduce land surface area. Further, Dr Zeiny also forgot other geological processes including erosion, sedimentation, sea-level fluctuations due to climactic changes, and volcanism due to mantle plumes. These also affect the continental land area.
How does the theory match practical observations?
Some scientists claim that the supercontinent Pangea covered about a quarter of the earth’s surface by the end of the Permian Period about 200 million years ago. http://www.umd.umich.edu/casl/natsci/geology/G218W03/notes/G218W03-L14.html Contrast this to the fact that at present 29.1% of the total earth’s surface area is land.
Therefore it seems the ‘land’ is not decreasing after all, or has not changed much in surface area in the past 200 million years (with some fluctuations due to ice ages etc.)
Here is further scientific proof that land has not been decreasing at all over the past billion years. http://webspinners.com/dlblanc/climate/climmods.php
| Quote: |
| In the geological record, there are indications that the relative proportion of land and ocean, and the average depth of the world's oceans, has remained relatively constant for at least the last one billion years of the Earth's history. This is inferred from the fact that the maximum thickness of undisturbed marine sedimentary deposits has remained essentially the same, around 50,000' [~15 km], for that span of time. |
The explanation for the relative constancy of the earth’s land surface area is given as follows:
| Quote: |
| Plate Tectonics is now generally recognized as the ultimate cause of orogeny (mountain building). Orogeny, by whichever mechanism, represents a process of thickening continents vertically. If the volume of continental material is to remain constant, vertical thickening must represent a reduction in their surface area. If the surface area of continents is reduced, then the area covered by oceans must increase, which, if ocean volume is also constant, represents a lowering of sea levels. Over the long span of geological time, this shift in area from land to ocean is balanced by the forces of erosion. |
How did Allah get this geological fact WRONG? Therefore, it would seem that the Quran cannot be divine because it contains patently false information.
CONCLUSION
Alas for Dr Zeiny, the geological facts do not support his case that land is decreasing as the Quran supposedly suggests.
In fact, I'd like to thank Dr Zeiny for helping to prove the Quran incorrect in asserting that land is decreasing, and thereby also prove that the Quran is false and therefore man-made. By extension, Dr Zeiny has also proven that Allah is also false and therefore man-made.
***
Translations of Surah 13:41
Pickthall: See they not how we aim to the land, reducing it of its outlying parts? (When) Allah doometh there is none that can postpone His doom, and He is swift at reckoning.
Yusuf Ali: See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? (Where) God commands, there is none to put back His Command: and He is swift in calling to account.
Shakir: Do they not see that We are bringing destruction upon the land by curtailing it of its sides? And Allah pronounces a doom -- there is no repeller of His decree, and He is swift to take account.
Sher Ali: Do they not see that WE are visiting the land, reducing it from its outlying boarders? And ALLAH judges; there is none to reverse HIS judgment. And HE is Swift at reckoning.
Khalifa: Do they not see that every day on earth, brings them closer to the end, and that GOD decides their life span, irrevocably? He is the most efficient Reckoner.
Palmer: Did they not see that we come to the land and diminish the borders thereof? God judges, and there is none to reverse His judgment, and He is swift at reckoning up!
Sale: Do they not see that we come into [their] land, and straiten the borders thereof, [by the conquests of the true believers]? When God judgeth, there is none to reverse his judgement; and he [will be] swift in taking an account.
Rodwell: See they not that we come into their land and cut short its borders? God pronounceth a doom, and there is none to reverse his doom. And swift is He to take account.
"Progressive Muslims": Do they not see that We come to the land and reduce it from its ends? And God gives judgment and there is none to override His judgment. And He is quick to reckoning.
Transliterated Arabic: Awa lam yaraw anna na/tee al-arda nanqusuha min atrafiha waAllahu yahkumu la muAAaqqiba lihukmihi wahuwa sareeAAu alhisabi
Translations of Surah 21:44
Pickthall: Nay, but We gave these and their fathers ease until life grew long for them. See they not how we aim to the land, reducing it of its outlying parts? Can they then be the victors?
Yusuf Ali: Nay, We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?
Shakir: Nay, We gave provision to these and their fathers until life was prolonged to them. Do they not then see that We are visiting the land, curtailing it of its sides? Shall they then prevail?
Sher Ali: Nay, WE provided those and their fathers with the good things of this world till life grew long for them. Do they not see that WE are visiting the land, reducing it from its outlying borders? Can they even then be the victors?
Khalifa: We have provided for these people and their ancestors, up until an old age. Do they not see that every day on earth brings them closer to the end? Can they reverse this process?
Palmer: Nay, but we have granted enjoyment to these men and to their fathers whilst life was prolonged. Do they not see that we come to the land and shorten its borders? Shall they then prevail?
Sale: But we have permitted these [men] and their fathers to enjoy [worldly prosperity], so long as life was continued unto them. Do they not perceive that we come unto the land [of the unbelievers, and] straiten the borders thereof? Shall they therefore be the conquerors?
Rodwell: Yes! we have given these men and their fathers enjoyments so long as their life lasted. What! see they not that we come to a land and straiten its borders Is it they who are the conquerors?
"Progressive Muslims": It was Us who gave luxury to these and their fathers, until they grew old with age. Do they not see that We come to the land and make it shrink from its edges? Will they be able to win?
Transliterated Arabic: Bal mattaAAna haola-i waabaahum hatta tala AAalayhimu alAAumuru afala yarawna anna na/tee al-arda nanqusuha min atrafiha afahumu alghaliboona
 _________________ What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.
Last edited by Hector on Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:06 am Post subject: |
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QURAN PREDICTED BLACK HOLES AND PULSARS
INTRODUCTION
Harun Yahya makes many claims of Quranic Science. This article seeks to debunk two such claims, namely that the Quran predicted black holes and pulsars.
I will show the absurdity of the black hole claim, while showing the pulsar claim to be conjectural and devoid of factual basis. In doing so, I will also show Harun Yahya’s self-contradiction as he used the same Quranic verse to ‘prove’ both the black hole and the pulsar. Now, even to the uninitiated, it would seem impossible for something to be both a black hole and a pulsar. However, Islamists do not appear to be inhibited by such constraints of logic.
ANALYSIS
| Quote: |
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/ramadan_2004/ramadan_pages_2004_day30.php
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_37.html
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm
BLACK HOLES
The 20th century saw a great many new discoveries regarding celestial phenomena in the universe. One of these entities, which has only recently been encountered, is the Black Hole. These are formed when a star which has consumed all its fuel collapses in on itself, eventually turning into a black hole with infinite density and zero volume and an immensely powerful magnetic field. We are unable to see black holes even with the most powerful telescope, because their gravitational pull is so strong that light is unable to escape from them. However, such a collapsed star can be perceived by means of the effect it has on the surrounding area. In Surat al-Waqi'a, Allah draws attention this matter in this way, by swearing upon the position of stars:
And I swear by the stars' positions-and that is a mighty oath if you only knew. (Qur'an, 56:75-76) |
This verse doesn’t say anything about a collapsed star. Only the position of the stars. It is the conjecture of the Islamist that the verse refers to collapsed stars. In fact, some translations allude to shooting or falling stars, i.e. meteors.
Khalifa: I swear by the positions of the stars.
Yusuf Ali: Furthermore I call to witness the setting of the Stars,-
Pickthall: Nay, I swear by the places of the stars -
Shakir: But nay! I swear by the falling of stars;
Sher Ali: Nay, I cite as proof the shooting of the stars -
"Progressive Muslims": I swear by the positions of the stars.
Therefore, the Islamist hasn't proven his case.
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The term "black hole" was first employed in 1969 by the American physicist John Wheeler. Previously, we imagined that we were able to see all the stars. However, it later emerged that there were stars in space whose light we were unable to perceive. Because, the light of these collapsed stars disappears. Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is such a high concentration of mass in a small space. The enormous gravitation captures even the fastest particles, i.e. the photons. For example, the final stage of a typical star, three times the mass of the Sun, ends after its burning out and its implosion as a black hole of only 20 kilometres in diameter! Black holes are "black," i.e. veiled from direct observation. They nevertheless reveal themselves indirectly, by the tremendous suction which their gravitational force exerts on other heavenly bodies. As well as depictions of the Day of Judgement, the verse below may also be pointing to this scientific discovery about black holes:
When the stars are extinguished, (Qur'an, 77: |
This surah does not speak about black holes at all, but about the Day of Decision (aka Day of Judgment). Therefore, it cannot possibly refer to black holes which were formed and continue to be formed long before this specific day.
Shakir
77:0 In the name of Allah, tho Beneficent, the Merciful.
77:1 I swear by the emissary winds, sent one after another (for men's benefit),
77:2 By the raging hurricanes,
77:3 Which scatter clouds to their destined places,
77:4 Then separate them one from another,
77:5 Then I swear by the angels who bring down the revelation,
77:6 To clear or to warn.
77:7 Most surely what you are threatened with must come to pass.
77:8 So when the stars are made to lose their light,
77:9 And when the heaven is rent asunder,
77:10 And when the mountains are carried away as dust,
77:11 And when the apostles are gathered at their appointed time.
77:12 To what day is the doom fixed?
77:13 To the day of decision.
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Moreover, stars of great mass also cause warps to be perceived in space. Black holes, however, do not just cause warps in space but also tear holes in it. That is why these collapsed stars are known as black holes. This fact may be referred to in the verse about stars, and this is another important item of information demonstrating that the Qur'an is the Word of Allah:
[I swear] by Heaven and the Tariq! And what will convey to you what the Tariq is? The Star Piercing [the darkness]! (Qur'an, 86:1-3) |
The verse actually refers to Tariq, a specific star. Some say it is the morning star (Pickthall and Sher Ali). Firstly, a star that pierces the darkness (or has piercing brightness) cannot be a black hole.
Secondly, if the reference by Pickthall and Sher Ali is correct, the Tariq or morning star is Venus, a planet and not a star. http://www.chabotspace.org/vsc/talk/astronomyFAQs.asp?selected=5#bookmark5
Even some Islamists believe that the Tariq could be Saturn or the Pleiades. http://www.al-islam.org/enlightening/58.htm
Therefore, it would appear Harun Yahya's claim, that the Quran speaks about black holes, cannot be supported by either the reading of the entire surah, or by the scientific facts about black holes.
In fact, Harun Yahya contradicts himself because he used the same Quranic verse to 'prove' Tariq is a pulsar, as opposed to a black hole. Truly the miracles of the Quran know no bounds!
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_38.html
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/ramadan_2004/ramadan_pages_2004_day29.php
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PULSARS: PULSATING STARS
[I swear] by Heaven and the Tariq! And what will convey to you what the Tariq is? The Star Piercing [the darkness]! (Qur'an, 86:1-3)
Pulsars are the remains of extinguished stars which emit very powerful, pulse-like radio waves and which revolve very rapidly around their own axes. It has been calculated that there are more than 500 pulsars in the Milky Way, of which our Earth is a part.
The word "Tariq," name of the Sura 86, comes from the root "tarq," whose basic meaning is that of striking hard enough to produce a sound, or hitting. Bearing in mind the word's possible meaning as "beating," "striking hard," our attention may be being drawn in this sura to an important scientific fact. Before analysing this information, let us look at the other words employed in the verse to describe these stars. The term "alttariqi" in the above verse means a star that pierces the night, that pierces the darkness, born at night, piercing and moving on, beating, striking, or sharp star. Furthermore, the term "waal" draws attention to the things being sworn on-the heaven and the Tariq.
Through research carried out by Jocelyn Bell Burnell, at Cambridge University in 1967, a regular radio signal was identified. Until that time, however, it was not known that that there was a heavenly body that could be the source of regular pulse or beating rather like that of the heart. In 1967, however, astronomers stated that, as matter grows denser in the core as it revolves around its own axis, the star's magnetic field also grows stronger, and thus gives rise to a magnetic field at its poles 1 trillion times stronger than that of Earth. They realised that a body revolving so fast and with such a powerful magnetic field emits rays consisting of very powerful radio waves in a conic form at every revolution. Shortly afterwards, it was also realised that the source of these signals is the rapid revolution of neutron stars. These newly discovered neutron stars are known as "pulsars." These stars, which turn into pulsars through supernova explosions, are of the greatest mass, and are the brightest and fastest moving bodies in the universe. Some pulsars revolve 600 times a second.50
The word "pulsar" comes from the verb to pulse. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the word means to pulsate, to beat. Encarta Dictionary defines it as to beat rhythmically, to move or throb with a strong regular rhythm. Again, according to the Encarta Dictionary, the word "pulsate," which comes from the same root, means to expand and contract with a strong regular beat.
Following that discovery, it was realised that the phenomenon described in the Qur'an as "tariq," beating, bore a great similarity to the neutron stars known as pulsars.
Neutron stars form as the nuclei of super giant stars collapse. The highly compressed and dense matter, in the form of a rapidly revolving sphere, entraps and squeezes most of the star's weight and magnetic field. The powerful magnetic field created by these rapidly revolving neutron stars has been shown to cause the emission of powerful radio waves observable on Earth.
In the third verse of Surat at-Tariq the term "alnnajmu alththaqibu," meaning piercing, piercing and moving on, or opening holes, indicates that Tariq is a bright star that pierces a hole in the darkness and moves on. The concept of the term "adraka" in the expression "And what will convey to you what the Tariq is?" refers to comprehension. Pulsars, formed through the compression of stars several times the size of the Sun, are among those celestial bodies that are hard to comprehend. The question in the verse emphasizes how hard it is to comprehend this beating star. (Allah knows best.)
As discussed, the stars described as Tariq in the Qur'an bear a close similarity to the pulsars described in the 20th century, and may reveal to us another scientific miracle of the Qur'an. |
Here are some of Harun Yahya's howlers:
1. Pulsars are hard to comprehend.
Not really. Their structure is as well understood as many other celestial bodies.
2. Pulsars are the brightest bodies in the universe.
Not really. Pulsars are weak optical emitters. Only a few pulsars can be seen with an optical telescope, and only one pulsar is bright enough to be seen reasonably well. In fact, it was not until 1967 that pulsars were discovered on radio emissions, not optically. http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-1995/pr-16-95.html
It is not pulsars but quasars that are the brightest objects in the universe. http://www.astro.soton.ac.uk/~crk/PH227/node46.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlkop/brights.html
Are pulsars the strongest radio emitters? Not really. The infrared star NML Cygni sat 1612 megahertz is the strongest radio emission line yet detected. Other strong radio emitters include radio galaxies such as Cygnus-A, quasars and gas clouds.
3. Pulsars are the fastest moving bodies in the universe.
Not proven. There appears some confusion between neutron stars and pulsars. Whilst it is true that all pulsars are neutron stars, not all neutron stars are pulsars. The fastest moving stars are neutron stars, such as RX J185635-3754, Barnard’s star or SGR1900+14.
http://perry.sonoma.edu/head2000/printed/fred/fredrel.html
http://www.dailycal.org/article.php?id=7518
4. The term "alttariqi" means a star that pierces the night, that pierces the darkness, born at night, piercing and moving on, beating, striking, or sharp star.
The Islamist gave the definition of the root “tarq” as beat or strike hard. Nowhere is there the implication of ‘moving on’. So, we’re left with only a star that pierces. But does this mean that the Tariq is a pulsar? This tafsir defines tariq as way, not a pulsar.
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The term / tariq / is derived from / tarq / 'to pound'. And / tariq / means 'way' because the path is pounded by the feet of pedestrians. The term /matraqah/ 'a sledge hammer' is used for pounding iron and materials like this.
And since the doors are closed at night when people arrive they have to pound on them to gain permission to enter, then, that which comes at night is called /tariq/ 'the night-visitant'. |
http://www.al-islam.org/enlightening/58.htm
Here is another definition giving the meaning, ‘night visitor’ from the root of ‘knock’ing of the door. http://www.shirazi.org.uk/086%20al-tariq.pdf
Muhammad Asad reads Taraqa to mean beat something or knock at something.
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| * Some commentators assume that what is described here as at-tariq ("that which comes in the night") is the morning-star, because it appears towards the end of the night; others - like Zamakhshari or Raghib - understand by it "the star" in its generic sense. Now if we analyze the origin of this noun, we find that it is derived from the verb taraqa, which primarily means "he beat [something]" or "knocked [at something]"; hence, taraqa 'l-bab, "he knocked at the door". Tropically, the noun signifies "anything [or "anyone"] that comes in the night", because a person who comes to a house by night is expected to knock at the door (Taj al-Arus). In the Qur'anic mode of expression, at-tariq is evidently a metaphor for the heavenly solace which sometimes comes to a human being lost in the deepest darkness of affliction and distress; or for the sudden, intuitive enlightenment which disperses the darkness of uncertainty; or, finally, for divine revelation, which knocks, as it were, at the doors of man's heart.. and thus fulfils the functions of both solace and enlightenment. (For my rendering of the adjurative wa as "Consider", see surah 74, first half of note 23.) |
http://www.geocities.com/masad02/086.html
Does beat, strike, knock, pound, pierce mean pulse? It seems a stretch of the imagination to suggest that. Hence I contend that the definition of Tariq of beat, pierce, strike, knock, and pound does not suggest the pulsing characteristics of a pulsar.
In terms of piercing the darkness, it would appear pulsars are neither the brightest, nor the strongest radio emitters in the Universe.
Regardless, it would appear that at Tariq refers to a singular star, not a collective of pulsars. If it is a single pulsar, which one is it? Sadly, the Quran doesn’t say, leaving the logical conclusion, due to its singular noun, that it refers to something the 7th Century Arabs knew about.
CONCLUSION
The claim that the Quran predicted the modern understanding of Black Holes is not backed by the scientific evidence.
The claim that the Quran predicted the modern understanding of pulsars is conjectural and not supported by the scientific evidence.
It can also be seen that a black hole cannot possibly also be a pulsar. Thus it appears that Harun Yahya has refuted himself. _________________ What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile. |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: |
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QURAN DESCRIBES GENDER DETERMINATION BY SPERM
INTRODUCTION
Various Islamists make the usual Islamic polemic about how Quran can be proved by modern scientific knowledge, using the old canard about how the Quran is the only ancient book that states that gender is determined by the sperm. In this, they may point out the ignorance of the Greeks who thought gender was determined by the relative strengths of sperm from the male and female parents as Hippocrates imagined. http://www.aquaire.clara.co.uk/
This article does not seek to prove that the ancient Egyptians shared some aspects of our modern understanding of gender determination and reproduction. It merely aims to show that the Quran was not the first religious text to suggest that gender is determined by the semen of the male parent.
THE ISLAMIST CLAIM
An example of the Islamists making the claim that the Quran is the only ancient book that correctly outlines gender determination is Dr Al Zeiny, Assistant Professor of Civil Engineering, University of Evansville.
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Until fairly recently, it was thought that a baby's sex was determined by the mother's cells. Or at least, it was believed that the sex was determined by the male and female cells together. The Quran is the only ancient book that states that sex is determined by the sperms.
"He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of a sperm which has been ejected." (The Qur'an, 53:45-46) |
This is repeated by Dr. Zakir Naik of the Islamic Research Foundation.
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SEX DETERMINATION
The sex of a fetus is determined by the nature of the sperm and not the ovum. The sex of the child, whether female or male, depends on whether the 23rd pair of chromosomes is XX or XY respectively. Primarily sex determination occurs at fertilization and depends upon the type of sex chromosome in the sperm that fertilizes an ovum. If it is an ‘X’ bearing sperm that fertilizes the ovum, the fetus is a female and if it is a ‘Y’ bearing sperm then the fetus is a male. “That He did create In pairs – male and female, From a seed when lodged (In its place).” [Al-Qur’aan 53:45-46]
The Arabic word nutfah means a minute quantity of liquid and tumnâ means ejaculated or planted. Therefore nutfah specifically refers to sperm because it is ejaculated. The Qur’aan says: “Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (In lowly form)? “Then did he become A clinging clot; Then did (Allah) make And fashion (him) In due proportion. “And of him He made Two sexes, male And female.” [Al-Qur’aan 75:37-39]
Here again it is mentioned that a small quantity (drop) of sperm (indicated by the word nutfatan min maniyyin) which comes from the man is responsible for the sex of the fetus.
Mothers-in-law in the Indian subcontinent, by and large prefer having male grandchildren and often blame their daughters-in-law if the child is not of the desired sex. If only they knew that the determining factor is the nature of the male sperm and not the female ovum! If they were to blame anybody, they should blame their sons and not their daughters-in-law since both the Qur’aan and Science hold that it is the male fluid that is responsible for the sex of the child! |
ANALYSIS
The question is: Are the Islamists correct in asserting that the Quran is the only ancient book that states that gender is determined by the sperm of the male parent?
I think not. At least some of the ancient Egyptians clearly believed that the gender of progeny is determined by the sperm of the male parent. http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html
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Atem is he who masturbated in Iunu (On, Heliopolis). He took his phallus in his grasp that he might create orgasm by means of it, and so were born the twins Shu and Tefnut.
-- Pyramid Text 1248-49 |
Shu was the god of dry air, wind and the atmosphere, while Tefnut was the lunar goddess of moisture, humidity and water who was also a solar goddess connected with the sun and dryness (more specifically, the absence of moisture).
Some ancient Egyptians also believe that Shu and Tefnut were the children of Ra and the Hathor, goddess of love, beauty and happiness. http://www.virtualology.com/virtualmuseumofnaturalhistory/hallofanthropology/egypt/egyptian-goddess.com/
While others believed Shu and Tefnut were progeny of Ra alone.
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| Shu and his female counterpart Tefnut may be considered together, at all events in the texts of the later periods. The name Shu appears to be derived from the root shu, "dry, parched, withered, empty," and the like, and the name Tefnut must be connected with tef, or teftet, "to spit, be moist," and the like; thus Shu was a god who was connected with the heat and dryness of sunlight and with the dry atmosphere which exists between the earth and the sky, and Tefnut was a personification of the moisture of the sky, and made herself manifest in various forms. The oldest legend about the origin of the gods is contained in the text of Pepi I., wherein it is said {line 465} that once upon a time Tem went to the city of Annu and that he there produced from his own body by the irregular means of masturbation his two children Shu and Tefnut. In this circle form the myth is probably of Libyan origin, and it suggests that its inventors were in a semi-savage, or perhaps wholly savage, state when it was first promulgated. In later times, as we have already seen the Egyptians appear to have rejected certain of the details of the myth, or to have felt some difficulty in believing that Shu and Tefnut were begotten and conceived and brought forth by Tem, and they therefore assumed that his shadow, khaibit, acted the part of wife to him; another view was that the goddess Iusaaset was his wife. |
http://www.touregypt.net/heliogod.htm
Therefore, in the fully developed myth, Ra (aka Atum aka Tem) contributed sperm which determine the sex of Shu and Tefnut, in conjunction with Iusaaset (or Hathor) as his wife.
Now, there is a clear mistake in that Iusaaset (or Hathor) does not seem to contribute anything more than a womb for incubation. However, I contend this is no different from Quranic embryology in that the Quran never explicitly claims that the female parent contributes genetic material. It is merely the assumption, and an assumption only, of the Islamists that 'nutfatun amshaajin' (mixed drop or mingled sperm) includes the female gamete.
"Verily WE created Man from a drop of mingled sperm." (76:2)
The term ‘nutfatun amshaajin’ could just as easily refer to the sperm-menstrual blood union of Aristotle and the ancient Indian embryologists, or the two sperm hypothesis of Hippocrates and Galen, or even the readily observed mingling of semen and vaginal discharge during sexual intercourse. In other words, the fact the Quran does not explicitly state that ‘nutfatun amshaajin’ contains the ovum, together with the existence of other possible explanations, means that it is illogical to assume the former and not the latter.
The insistence by Islamists that it explains the former is pure conjecture devoid of evidence, and constitutes the logical fallacy of equivocation, and its adoption is merely wishful thinking or the Islamist art of the ‘reinterpretation after the fact.’
One might contend that the Quran does not claim a role for the ovum at all, or is even ignorant of its existence. Verses 53:45-46 are strikingly similar to the Ra’s masturbation text.
Pickthall: And that He createth the two spouses, the male and the female, From a drop (of seed) when it is poured forth;
Yusuf Ali: That He did create in pairs, - male and female, From a seed when lodged (in its place);
Shakir: And that He created pairs, the male and the female From the small seed when it is adapted
Sher Ali: And that HE creates the pairs, male and female, From a sperm drop when it is emitted;
Khalifa: He is the One who created the two kinds, male and female from a tiny drop of semen.
Palmer: and that He created pairs, male and female, from a clot when it is emitted;
Sale: and that he createth the two sexes, the male and the female, of seed when it is emitted;
Rodwell: And that He hath created the sexes, male and female, From the diffused germs of life,
Transliterated Arabic Waannahu khalaqa alzzawjayni alththakara waal-ontha Min nutfatin itha tumna
There are only two logical explanations of nutfatin itha tumna; that it is the sperm emitted, or the blastocyst (i.e. zygote) implanted. If it is the latter, the Islamists have no case to argue that the Quran correctly states that gender is determined by the sperm of the male parent. Hence, nutfatin itha tumna must refer to the sperm emitted.
It is possible the Quranic verses 53:45-46 state that the male and female progenies, and not merely the genders, are created from the sperm. This is a possibility totally discounted by Islamists without evidence and suggests a biased interpretation of the verses in light of modern facts. For where is the mention of the ovum? Not in these verses nor anywhere else in the Quran.
In fact, the Quran itself provides the evidence of its doctrinal omission or rejection of the role of the ovum in procreation, for verse 2:223 states that wives are merely tilth. This is saying they are like the earth receiving the zygote (i.e. seed) from the male.
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| Pickthall 2:223: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad). |
Therefore, if read in the context of verse 2:223, ‘nutfatun amshaajin’ cannot contain the ovum because tilth does not contribute genetic material to the development of the seed (i.e. zygote), and must mean the semen mingled with some unspecified non-genetic material-contributing female secretion.
In light of these facts, backed by the Quranic verses, it is apparent that the Quran’s view of human conception and reproduction is that the male parent contributes the diploid seed (nutfatin itha tumna) and the female parent, as tilth, merely contributes the environment and nutrients for the growth and development of this diploid seed.
Hence it can be seen that the fully developed ancient Egyptian Ra-Hathor-Shu-Tefnut myth of gender determination and the contribution of the female parent in reproduction is very similar, if not identical, to that described by the Quran.
CONCLUSION
It is apparent that some of the ancient Egyptians believed that gender is created by the sperm from the male parent, and reproduction is via male and female union. This belief predated the Quran by about 2,900 years as evidenced by the pyramid text of Pharaoh Pepi I, 2332-2283 BCE. _________________ What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile. |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: |
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QURAN AND EMBRYOLOGY
INTRODUCTION
There are propagations of the Quranic ‘so-called’ Embryology by such luminaries as Dr Keith Moore and Dr Maurice Bucaille. These works are aped by such Islamic scholars as Dr Al Zeiny, Dr Zakir Naik, Dr Ibrahim Syed, Dr. Sharif Kaf Al-Ghazal, and the ubiquitous Harun Yahya aka Adnan Oktar. A good additional material is provided by Dr Omar Abdul Rehman in which he goes into even greater detail in his attempt to validate the Quranic ‘human reproduction’ verses with modern scientific facts. http://www.aquaire.clara.co.uk/
There are many excellent debunkings of the Quranic Embryology Pseudoscience (“QEP”). A short list would include these:
http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/embryo.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CJ/CJ533.html
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/embryo.html
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=26725&highlight=embryology+thhuxley#26725
This article attempts to add to this debate, concentrating solely on the Quranic verses, because inclusion of the hadiths would clearly show up the stupidity of the QEP (see the list above).
THE ISLAMIST CLAIM
Dr Omar Abdul Rehman’s article is clearly the most detailed, and I will use it as the basis for rebuttal as it includes all the QEP nonsense of Drs Keith Moore and Maurice Bucaille.
A summary of his claims is contained herein:
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Thus the order and rate of development is similar in the two surahs.
(2) The first and second stages (Nutfah and 'Alaqah) : These two stages are congruent in Al-Mu'minun and AI-Qiyamah and the conjunction "thumma" has been used in both. No mention of these two stages is made in AI-Infitar.
(3) The third stage (Mudghah) "Mudghah" (a noun) was used in AI-Mu'minun to describe the stage which follows the "'Alaqah". This noun is indicative of the shape. In "Al-Qiyamah" text, the verb "Khalaqa" has been used. This verb indicates the events which take place in "Mudghah" stage. "Khalaqa" is thus taken to correspond to the beginning of the development of the various organs during the "Mudghah' stage.
As the outer appearance of the embryo alters with the changes taking place inside it, then the verb "sawwa" in "AI-Qiyamah" is taken to indicate that the "Mudghah" stage is over. The "Mudghah" has no bones or muscles and therefore does not have the human shape.
Thus the stage of straightening and making the surface of the embryo more even mentioned in "AI-Qiyamah" must therefore, come after "Mudghah" stage. The order of events in "AI-Mu'minun" and "AI-Qiyamah is the same. Thus it is taken that the straightening in "Al-Oiyamah" follows immediately after the "Mudghah" i.e. corresponding to the bones "Izam" stage in "AI-Mu'minun
"Mudghah" has been described by the verb "Khalaqa" in "AI-Qiyamah" describing the events which take place in it. Thus the process of creation is a particular feature of the "Mudghah" while terms like Nutfah and 'Alaqah have been used in the previous stages. In "Surah Al-Haj" the "Mudghah" is again described as formed and unformed. This indicates that the process of formation and initiation of various organs is a prominent characteristic of this stage.
Furthermore, by comparing the texts in "Al-Qiyamah" and "AI-Infitar", we find that "Khalq" and straightening are in congruent sequence in both texts. This also indicates that "AI-Infitar" text has also started with the Mudghah stage by using the verb "Khalaqa" which is an important characteristic of this stage as explained in the above paragraph.
(4) The fourth stage: As explained in the third stage the beginning of the bones 'Izam" stage corresponds to the stage of straightening, Furthermore, Al-Infitar shows that the stage of straightening does not include modification "Ta'dil" as this is stated to follow upon; straightening. Modification occurs by approaching the human appearance which cannot occur at the stage of bones without the presence of the muscle. It can therefore be concluded that the modification stage starts with the beginning of the clothing with flesh (muscle) stage i.e. it follows the stage of the bones which corresponds to the straightening stage. This is indicated by the order of events stated in "AI-Mu'minun" on one hand and both "AI-Qiyamah" and 'AI-Infitar" on the other. The Qur'an has therefore used the noun 'bones' to indicate shape in the first instance and a verb "sawwa" in both the latter surahs to describe an event. The embryo at this stage becomes more straight after having been bent (C-shape) and its surface more smooth after having been uneven during the "Mudghah" stage.
(5) The fifth stage: In the above discourse it has been mentioned that the beginning of the stage, clothing with flesh, corresponds to the beginning of the modification stage in "AI-Infitar". This latter stage must correspond to the statement:
"and We made from it the male and female" in "AI-Qiyamah" because both are preceded by the straightening stage. Therefore, the beginning of male and female differentiation corresponds to the stage of clothing with flesh in Al-Mu'minun. This is in fact what actually takes place. There is differentiation of the genital ridge into either an ovary or a testis at this stage.
(6) The sixth stage and the continuation of the fifth: In surah AI-Mu'minun the conjunction "thumma" was used between the stage of clothing with flesh and the stage of Nash'ah. However, in "AI-Qiyamah" and "AI-Infitar" no sixth stage is mentioned. This indicates that male and female sex differentiation continues to its completion and this is what actually happens. The external genital organs differentiate between the 11th and 12th weeks Similarly "Ta’dil" or modification of the organs and acquiring of human proportions of the body continues to a late stage of pregnancy. |
ANALYSIS
1. The Islamist Debating Technique
A good summary of the Islamist debating technique is given here:
http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/embryo.html
I think it is a waste of time to argue such imponderables of whether the ‘alaqa’ is a leech, or a leech-like thing, a clinging thing, or a clot. I will accept each and every one of these Islamist definitions because such arguments are futile. Both sides would merely be agreeing to disagree.
A further Islamist miracle is that words like alaqa can have several meanings, and each of these meanings applies at the same time. Thus, an alaqa is a leech, looks like a leech if viewed in a certain angle or a clot in another angle, or clings to the endometrium. Truly the Quran is miraculous.
Therefore, my opinion is that the best method of debunking the QEP is by questioning every Islamist claim as to their validity, and to make the Islamist justify every claim. This would include why they chose to make a choice when there are several other equally valid possibilities, why they chose to ignore clearly nonsensical phrases, and why they assume certain phrases to be metaphorical while others to be literal.
In this way, I will show the QEP to be the patent nonsense that it is.
I will also ignore the obvious similarities between the embryology prevailing at the time the Quran was written and the QEP, notwithstanding Dr Omar Abdul Rehman’s excellent article. This is because Muhammad’s plagiarizing of ancient Greek and Indian embryology can never be proven one way or the other. Therefore, I will concentrate solely in showing that the QEP is made up of incorrect or illogical or unproven assertions.
2. The role of the Female Gamete
The Quran never explicitly claims that the female parent contributes genetic material. It is merely the assumption, and an assumption only, of the Islamists that 'nutfatun amshaajin' (mixed drop or mingled sperm) includes the female gamete.
"Verily WE created Man from a drop of mingled sperm." (76:2)
The term ‘nutfatun amshaajin’ could just as easily refer to the sperm-menstrual blood union of Aristotle and the ancient Indian embryologists, or the two sperm hypothesis of Hippocrates and Galen, or even the readily observed mingling of semen and vaginal discharge during sexual intercourse. In other words, the fact the Quran does not explicitly state that ‘nutfatun amshaajin’ contains the ovum, together with the existence of other possible explanations, means that it is illogical to assume the former and not the latter.
The insistence by Islamists that it explains the former is pure conjecture devoid of evidence, and constitutes the logical fallacy of equivocation, and its adoption is merely wishful thinking or the Islamist art of the ‘reinterpretation after the fact.’
One might contend that the Quran does not claim a role for the ovum at all, or is even ignorant of its existence.
The Islamists claim that the Quran correctly states that the sex of the progeny is determined by the sperm from the male parent, based on verses 53:45-46.
Pickthall: And that He createth the two spouses, the male and the female, From a drop (of seed) when it is poured forth;
Transliterated Arabic Waannahu khalaqa alzzawjayni alththakara waal-ontha Min nutfatin itha tumna
There are only two logical explanations of nutfatin itha tumna; that it is the sperm emitted, or the blastocyst (i.e. zygote) implanted. If it is the latter, the Islamists have no case to argue that the Quran correctly states that gender is determined by the sperm of the male parent. Hence, nutfatin itha tumna must refer to the sperm emitted.
It is possible the Quranic verses 53:45-46 state that the male and female progenies, and not merely the genders, are created from the sperm. This is a possibility totally discounted by Islamists without evidence and suggests a biased interpretation of the verses in light of modern facts. For where is the mention of the ovum? Not in these verses nor anywhere else in the Quran.
In fact, the Quran itself provides the evidence of its doctrinal omission or rejection of the role of the ovum in procreation, for verse 2:223 states that wives are merely tilth. This is saying they are like the earth receiving the zygote (i.e. seed) from the male.
| Quote: |
| Pickthall 2:223: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad). |
Therefore, if read in the context of verse 2:223, ‘nutfatun amshaajin’ cannot contain the ovum because tilth does not contribute genetic material to the development of the seed (i.e. zygote), and must mean the semen mingled with some unspecified non-genetic material-contributing female secretion.
In light of these facts, backed by the Quranic verses, it is apparent that the Quran’s view of human conception and reproduction is that the male parent contributes the diploid seed (nutfatin itha tumna) and the female parent, as tilth, merely contributes the environment and nutrients for the growth and development of this diploid seed.
3. The Dust Stage
These verses form the basis for the QEP.
| Quote: |
Pickthall 22:05: O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength. And among you there is he who dieth (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knoweth naught. And thou (Muhammad) seest the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it doth thrill and swell and put forth every lovely kind (of growth).
Transliterated Arabic: Ya ayyuha alnnasu in kuntum fee raybin mina albaAAthi fa-inna khalaqnakum min turabin thumma min nutfatin thumma min AAalaqatin thumma min mudghatin mukhallaqatin waghayri mukhallaqatin linubayyina lakum wanuqirru fee al-arhami ma nashao ila ajalin musamman thumma nukhrijukum tiflan thumma litablughoo ashuddakum waminkum man yutawaffa waminkum man yuraddu ila arthali alAAumuri likayla yaAAlama min baAAdi AAilmin shay-an watara al-arda hamidatan fa-itha anzalna AAalayha almaa ihtazzat warabat waanbatat min kulli zawjin baheejin
Pickthall 23:12-14: Verily We created man from a product of wet earth; Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging; Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!
Transliterated Arabic: Walaqad khalaqna al-insana min sulalatin min teenin Thumma jaAAalnahu nutfatan fee qararin makeenin Thumma khalaqna alnnutfata AAalaqatan fakhalaqna alAAalaqata mudghatan fakhalaqna almudghata AAithaman fakasawna alAAithama lahman thumma ansha/nahu khalqan akhara fatabaraka Allahu ahsanu alkhaliqeena |
These verses clearly delineate the stages of the QEP as thus:
1. Dust/wet earth/clay
2. Nutfah (Believed to be sperm)
3. Alaqa (leach, leach-like, clot, clinging thing)
4. Mudgha (chewed lump, partly formed and partly unformed)
5. Izhaam/Aitham (bones)
6. Izhaam covered with Lahm (muscles and flesh)
7. Another creation (fetus?)
The Islamists all conveniently ignore the first stage which is ‘DUST’. What does it correspond to in the modern Embryology? I know some Islamists would claim the dust to be metaphorical. Where is the evidence for that? If the dust is metaphorical, then the other stages should also be metaphorical, in the absence of evidence to differentiate between metaphorical and literal phrases.
The evidence that ‘dust’ is not metaphorical is the word ‘then’ or ‘thumma’ linking dust and sperm. This is the same word linking various stages in the QEP sequence of events. To arbitrary assume that this word now no longer means an immediate follow-on to the next stage is disingenuous and devoid of explanatory evidence.
Some Islamists will argue that the dust refers to the catalytic stage of clay in the first stage of abiogenesis. However, this is in error because there are numerous, literally eons length, steps between this clay-catalysis stage and the creation of humans. Secondly, the verse implies that man was made FROM clay, giving the impression clay was a building block and not a catalytic compound. Therefore, this clay-catalysis notion is nonsensical and debunked.
4. The Missing Stages
Most QEP proponents either conveniently omit the embarrassing verse 40:67 or dishonestly quote only the fragment supporting their case.
| Quote: |
Pickthall 40:67: He it is Who created you from dust, then from a drop (of seed) then from a clot, then bringeth you forth as a child, then (ordaineth) that ye attain full strength and afterward that ye become old men - though some among you die before - and that ye reach an appointed term, that haply ye may understand.
Transliterated Arabic: Huwa allathee khalaqakum min turabin thumma min nutfatin thumma min AAalaqatin thumma yukhrijukum tiflan thumma litablughoo ashuddakum thumma litakoonoo shuyookhan waminkum man yutawaffa min qablu walitablughoo ajalan musamman walaAAallakum taAAqiloona |
Those QEP proponents who omit this verse are Keith Moore, Maurice Bucaille, Sharif Kaf Al-Ghazal, Nadeem Arif Najmi and Omar Abdul Rehman. Only Ibrahim Syed quotes the verse, but only up to the alaqa stage. Zakir Naik references it in a footnote, glossing over the ‘missing stages’, while Sulayman Gani quotes the verse in full, but glosses over the missing stages.
This shows that the Quran can’t even get its embryology stages correct. Some might view 40:67 to ‘contradict’ the other embryology verses as it states clearly and plainly that the child is formed straight after the alaqa stage.
5. The Formation of Bone
There is a clear mistake in the QEP idea of the formation of bone. Drs Needham and Needbeer of freethoughtmecca explain this well and I defer to their expertise.
| Quote: |
While we will return to the issue of mudgha below, we should now move on to the issue of izhaam (bones). As was noted above, after the alaqa is turned into a mudgha, the Qur'an states fa-khalaqnaa al-mudghata izhaaman, or "then we formed the morsel into bones." Moore and his cohort try to change the translation to "out of the mudgha we formed bones," so as to give the impression that the bones are forming inside the embryo, rather than the entire object becoming bones. This brings to light the duplicitous nature that these people are taking to the text.
Consider that word khalaqnaa ("we created/formed") appears in three times in Soorat al-Moominoon 23:14: (1) khalaqnaa al-nutfata alaqatan - "we formed the nutfa into an alaqa"; (2) khalaqnaa al-alaqata mudghatan - "we formed the alaqa into a mudgha"; (3) khalaqnaa al-mudghata izhaaman - "we formed the mudgha into bones." So the question that needs to be asked is how one properly interprets the logical structure khalaqnaa X,Y.
As will be noted below, proponents of this polemic want izhaam to not actually be a reference to bone, but rather cartilaginous precursors to bone, thus we see that there are two possible (and rather different) usages of the logical structure khalaqnaa X,Y being employed. Does the logical structure mean "we formed the X into a Y," or does it mean "we caused a precursor to Y to form inside the X"? No person to put forth the polemic has ever explained which is the correct interpretation, or if both are possible how they know to use one and not the other. The reality is that khalaqnaa X,Y means "we formed the X into a Y," and there is no implication that the Y (much less something other than Y!) is only forming inside the X.
When we reach izhaam we find another problematic part of the verse. Consider that the text reads: khalaqnaa al-mudghata izhaaman, fa-kasawnaa al-izhaaman laHman. First note that khalaqnaa is past tense, and the pre-fix fa means "then." So the verse reads: "we formed the morsel into bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh." Thus, it implies bone forms before soft tissue, which is a blatant error, not to mention one that parallels Galen.
As was alluded to above, there is an argument put forth by those who push this polemic that the "bones" are actually a reference to cartilaginous models that will later ossify. Of course, the text has izhaam, which only means bone - there is no reference to cartilage (Arabic: ghudhroof), so we see that the champions of this deceptive polemic are importing things. Furthermore, as was noted in the previous paragraph, the text has a past tense conjugation followed by the word "then" (fa), thus the logic of the text is that the bones were completed, finished, and then they were clothed with flesh. This does not square with the actual process that some wish to correlate the text with, where cartilaginous skeletal models ossify while muscle forms around them simultaneously. |
Unless and until an Islamist can adequately explain why the syntax of stage transformation is somehow different in the izhaam stage compared to all the other stages, one must logically conclude that the Quran is in error in believing that the mudgha turned totally into izhaam.
The Islamist would simply say that the syntax allows both interpretations, i.e. khalaqna can mean made into or made within. However, I’m still to see an Islamist provide proof of this assertion. It is easy to make assertions. Backing them up with evidence is another matter. Therefore, in the failure of evidence otherwise, the conclusion must be that the syntax of verse 23:12-14 must reveal the QEP to be in error.
Secondly, the Islamist has to explain why the author(s) of the Quran was deficient in their language and forgot to mention cartilage (ghudhroof) but bone (izhaam).
Thirdly, muscle and bone (or their precursors) develop contemporaneously, although muscle begins developing before cartilage and bone. Therefore, there is no scientific basis for the QEP proposition of a stage in which bone is later covered with flesh after its own formation. Muscles begin developing in week four. There are 40 pairs of developing muscles in the five-week embryo, and they begin to move by week six when the skeletal system is still totally cartilage which forms in week five or six. By week seven, the muscles and nerves begin work together, when ossification (i.e. bone formation) begins.
It can be argued that since cartilage does not begin forming until week five or six and muscles begin forming in the fourth week, the Quranic verse 23:14 got the embryology completely reversed, and therefore, incorrect.
Here is the scientific evidence for the contemporaneous development of cartilage/bone and muscles:
Ossification (in upper limb) occurs at the end of the 7th week. - The Developing Human, 6th Edition Clinically Oriented Embryology Keith L. Moore, Ph..D., FIAC, FRSM T.V.N. Persaud, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc., FRCPath W.B. Saunders Company (Philadelphia), 1998 p. 96
According to Rugh in Conception to Birth Roberts Rugh, Ph.D., Landrum B. Shettles, Ph.D., M.D. Harper & Row, (New York), 1971, muscles appear in pelvis by 6th week (p 43). Movement of the muscles is being controlled by the nervous system by the 6th week (p 34). All of the muscle blocks have appeared by day 36 after conception (p 46).
Thus bone appears after muscles have formed.
Even if we were to accept that the Quran was only referring to precursors of bone and not bone itself, even though it used the Arabic word for bone, izhaam, the embryology is still wrong.
Muscle precursors begin developing into muscle soon after mesenchymal (skeletal) condensation.
http://136.165.37.172/PDF/348lecture24.pdf
http://people.uncw.edu/ballardt/bio316/limb.pdf
Looks like muscle forms contemporaneously with cartilage formation and is not delayed until bone had formed. Muscle development starts on Day 28. http://www.choosethechild.org/pages/fetal.htm
Building blocks are present for 40 pairs of muscles, which are located from the base of the skull to the bottom of the spinal column. Day 28 after conception Rugh, p 35
Muscles appear in the pelvic region. Day 31 after conception Rugh, p 43
All of the muscle blocks have appeared. Day 36 after conception Rugh, p 46
Muscular layers of the stomach, esophagus, and intestines begin to proliferate. Day 56 after conception Rugh, p 53
The first indication of limb musculature is observed. 7th week of development Sadler, 7th edition, p 168
Cartilage first appears in week 5.
http://som.flinders.edu.au/FUSA/ORTHOWEB/notebook/disease/embriology.html
But the cartilage skeleton begins forming by week 6.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/w/x/wxm15/Online/Human%20Biology/Skeletal%20System/Study%20Guides/growth_sg10a.htm
Thus, when the bone precursors were developing, muscles were also developing at the same time. The cartilage model of the skeleton begins developing by week 6 (see above) and is only developed by the 7th week. http://www.aclife.org/education/development.html
Mesenchymal models of the bones in the limbs undergo chondrification to form hyaline cartilage. Week 6 (Moore: The Developing Human, 6th ed., p. 420, fig. 15-15D)
At this time, all the muscle blocks have already appeared. Rugh p 46.
Thus, Keith Moore is wrong. Muscles do not take their positions around the bone forms at the end of the seventh week and during the eighth week. All the muscle blocks have already appeared around the developing skeleton by day 36 – i.e. early week 5. Bone and Muscle develop contemporaneously. In fact, muscle appears BEFORE bone and around the same time as the cartilage precursor.
This diagram shows that the week 6 embryo (Carnegie Stage 16) already has musculature when the cartilage is forming.
| Code: |
| http://137.222.110.150/restricted/albums/album29/developing_musculature_of_10mm_embryo_human.sized.jpg |
edited by M
6. The End of Cell Differentiation
Proponents of the QEP state that mudgha stage in which the phrase “partly formed and partly unformed” or “shaped and shapeless” refers to the incomplete cell differentiation observed in this stage.
| Quote: |
| Yusuf Ali 22:05: … We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed… |
Sadly for the Islamists, some of whom are embryologists and medical doctors and so should know better, this claim is not backed by the scientific evidence.
Remembering that this mudgha stage occurs before the izham stage, it must occur before week six, when the progeny is still in the “embryo” stage. However, modern embryologists know that cell differentiation occurs well before the ‘mudgha’ stage and well into the “fetal” stage. Hence the QEP claim must be incorrect.
7. The Beginning of the Fetal Stage
Islamists claim that the Quran correctly denotes the start of the Fetal stage by referring to the creation of ‘another creation’ after the izham/lahm (bone clothed with flesh) stage which supposedly occurs at week eight.
| Quote: |
| Pickthall 23:12-14: …We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. |
An experienced embryologist would know that the delineation of the embryo and fetal stages is arbitrary.
| Quote: |
| However, the 8-week dividing line is still arbitrary, since a firm scientific basis for the transition to the fetal stage is lacking. |
http://www.nesu.mphy.lu.se/nectar/eth.1.html
8. The Least Period of Conception
Some Islamists claim that the Quran correctly states that the least period of conception is 6 months. They base this claim on two verses.
| Quote: |
Pickthall 46:15: And We have commended unto man kindness toward parents. His mother beareth him with reluctance, and bringeth him forth with reluctance, and the bearing of him and the weaning of him is thirty months, till, when he attaineth full strength and reacheth forty years, he saith: My Lord! Arouse me that I may give thanks for the favour wherewith Thou hast favoured me and my parents, and that I may do right acceptable unto Thee. And be gracious unto me In the matter of my seed. Lo! I have turned unto Thee repentant, and lo! I am of those who surrender (unto Thee).
Pickthall 31:14: And We have enjoined upon man concerning his parents. His mother beareth him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Give thanks unto Me and unto thy parents. Unto Me is the journeying. |
Dr Omar Abdul Rehman claims that ‘the two texts taken together leave only six months (22 weeks i.e., five and half Gregorian months are equal to about six lunar months. of pregnancy).’ Here, Dr Abdul Rehman’s sleigh of hand to fit 22 weeks into six lunar months is ludicrous as each lunar month consists of four weeks, while five and a half Gregorian months consist of about 23.8 weeks.
Dr Al-Ghazal also claims that according to ‘scientific facts’ the least period of conception is 22 weeks.
Even assuming the arbitrary claim by Drs Al-Ghazal and Abdul Rehman of 22 weeks, being the ‘most cases’ scenario (patently false according to medical statistics – see below), one is left with the conclusion that the Quran is still in error as six lunar months is 24 weeks, not 22 weeks.
This two-week difference is very important to the development and survivability of the fetus. Hence, it should not be summarily dismissed and rounded to the nearest month. If anything, it should be rounded to five lunar months, not six.
Regardless, the claim of six lunar months or 22 weeks as the least period of conception or ‘minimum period for fetal viability’ is unsupported by modern medical science.
| Quote: |
A fetus is defined as being viable if it has the ability to "potentially able to live outside the mother's womb [that is, can survive], albeit with artificial help." In the fifties viability was reached about 30 weeks after conception. Modern medical technology changed that to 25 weeks in the seventies. Now viability continues to be pushed further and further back in the pregnancy and is now as early as 19 weeks.
21 and 22 week premature babies are now supported routinely, and have a good chance of survival. By 24 weeks after conception, premature babies have a 40% chance of reaching adulthood without any major complications. By 28 weeks, the chance is 90%. By 29 weeks, survival is almost definite. (Note: These percentages are from reports written during the late 1980s. Current survival rates are most likely much higher.) |
http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/development4.shtml
Thus, it can be seen that the minimum period of fetal viability has changed, at least in recent history. It was never 22 weeks or 6 lunar months prior to the era of modern medicine, being likely to have been at least 30 weeks. Now, it has shrunk to only 19 weeks in countries with advanced pediatric medicine. I would suggest the minimum period of fetal viability in many third-world countries would still be around 30 weeks. Thus, the QEP proposition of the least period of conception is false.
CONCLUSION
The Quranic Pseudoscience Embryology can be seen to be false due to the following points:
1. The Quran itself omits mention of the ovum in human reproduction, with doctrinal evidence that it regards the progeny to be the resulting union between the seed from the male parent and the female parent as tilth. As tilth do not provide genetic material to the seed, it is abundantly clear that the Quran regards the nutfah (sperm) as the diploid seed.
2. The Quran includes an initial dust stage that cannot be reconciled with modern embryology.
3. The missing stages of verse 40:67 contradict the other embryology verses.
4. The stage of bone formation is in error, even assuming that izhaam means both bone and cartilage.
5. The Quranic view of cell differentiation at the Mudgha stage is incorrect, as modern embryology has discovered cell differentiation occurring before and after the putative ‘Mudgha’ stage.
6. The QEP claim that Quran correctly predicted the beginning of the fetal stage is debunked because the transition between the embryo and the fetus is arbitrary.
7. The QEP claim that the Quran correctly states the least period of conception at 24 weeks is in error, as according to modern medical knowledge this period is closer to 21-22 weeks or even less with advanced medical science, and at least 30 weeks without modern medical assistance.
REFERENCES
The Qur'an, Knowledge, and Science by A. Abd-Allah http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/scislam.html
Embryology and Human Creation between Quran & Science by Dr. Sharif Kaf Al-Ghazal
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_51_100/attitude_of_a_muslim_scholar_at.htm
Does the Qur’an Plagiarise Ancient Greek Embryology? by Dr. Omar Abdul Rehman http://www.aquaire.clara.co.uk/
Ethical Guidelines For The Use Of Human Embryonic Or Fetal Tissue For Experimental And Clinical Neurotransplantation And Research by G.J. Boer http://www.nesu.mphy.lu.se/nectar/eth.1.html
Development of the Embryo / Fetus – 2 by Dr Mark Hill http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/Medicine/BGDL6s1.pdf
A Scientist's Interpretation Of References To Embryology In The Qur'an by Keith L. Moore, Ph.D., F.I.A.C. http://www.islamicity.com/Science/Moore/
The Qur’aan and Modern Science: Compatible or Incompatible by Dr Zaki Naik. http://www.ymofmd.com/books/qms.pdf
Qur'anic Embryology by Dr. Yusuf Needham and Dr. Butrus Needbeer http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/embryo.html
Fetal Development. Second Look Project. http://www.secondlookproject.org/fetaldevelopment/
Attitude of a Muslim Scholar at Human Embryology by Dr. Ibrahim B. Syed http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_51_100/attitude_of_a_muslim_scholar_at.htm
Fetal Development. http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/development4.shtml
Quran and Modern Science by Dr. Al Zeiny http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf
Last edited by Hector on Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:12 am Post subject: |
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QURAN AND ALL CREATION IN PAIRS
INTRODUCTION
It is my observation that some Islamists, particularly those who are Western-educated, strive to prove the validity of the Quran through supposed scientific miracles enclosed therein. Typically, they quote ‘vague’ verses amenable to multiple interpretations and then choose the few interpretations to suit their aims. Some of these are even quite convincing, particularly when articulated by knowledgeable Islamists and where absolute proof is impossible due to the nature of the question.
This article seeks to debunk just one of these claims, which is the claim that Allah created all creatures in pairs, male and female.
013.003
Yusuf Ali: And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!
Pickthal: And He it is Who spread out the earth and placed therein firm hills and flowing streams, and of all fruits He placed therein two spouses (male and female). He covereth the night with the day. Lo! herein verily are portents for people who take thought.
Shakir: And He it is Who spread the earth and made in it firm mountains and rivers, and of all fruits He has made in it two kinds; He makes the night cover the day; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.
Sher Ali: And HE it is Who spread out the earth and made therein mountains and rivers, and of fruits of every kind HE made therein two sexes. HE causes the night to cover the day. Therein, verily, are Signs for a people who reflect.
Wahuwa allathee madda al-arda wajaAAala feeha rawasiya waanharan wamin kulli alththamarati jaAAala feeha zawjayni ithnayni yughshee allayla alnnahara inna fee thalika laayatin liqawmin yatafakkaroona
036.036
Yusuf Ali: Glory to God, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge.
Pickthal: Glory be to Him Who created all the sexual pairs, of that which the earth groweth, and of themselves, and of that which they know not!
Shakir: Glory be to Him Who created pairs of all things, of what the earth grows, and of their kind and of what they do not know.
Sher Ali: Holy is HE Who created all things in pairs, of what the earth grows and of themselves, and of what they know not.
Subhana allathee khalaqa al-azwaja kullaha mimma tunbitu al-ardu wamin anfusihim wamimma la yaAAlamoona
043:012
Yusuf Ali: That has created pairs in all things, and has made for you ships and cattle on which ye ride,
Pickthal: He Who created all the pairs, and appointed for you ships and cattle whereupon ye ride.
Shakir: And He Who created pairs of all things, and made for you of the ships and the cattle what you ride on,
Sher Ali: And Who has created pairs of all things, and has made for you ships and cattle whereon you ride,
Waallathee khalaqa al-azwaja kullaha wajaAAala lakum mina alfulki waal-anAAami ma tarkaboona
051.049
Yusuf Ali: And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.
Pickthal: And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect.
Shakir: And of everything We have created pairs that you may be mindful.
Sher Ali: And of everything have WE created pairs that you may reflect.
Wamin kulli shay-in khalaqna zawjayni laAAallakum tathakkaroona
Please note that due to the ‘richness of the Arabic language’ and because Allah made the Quran 'clear and easy to understand', some Islamists may try to argue that at least some of these verses do not convey the message that ‘ALL CREATURES’ are created in pairs, taking the literal or metaphorical sense whichever and whenever suits them best.
For example, a disingenuous Islamist may claim that verse 13:3 refers only to FRUITS, or that verse 36:36 refers only to things grown from the Earth (i.e. plants). However verses 43:12 and 51:49 make it absolutely clear that Allah created ALL CREATURES in pairs. There is no ambiguity.
I will ignore the following verses, recognizing the possibility of relevance solely to humans. Further, their inclusion does not detract from my arguments.
"That He did create in pairs,- male and female, (The Noble Quran, 53:45)"
"And of him He made two sexes, male and female. (The Noble Quran, 75:39)"
"By (the mystery of) the creation of male and female; (The Noble Quran, 92:3)"
The Islamists Case
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_1_50/all_things_in_pair.htm
PAIRS IN LIVING THINGS
One of the most recent of all scientific discoveries is that everything in the universe exists in pairs such as male and female among living things. Now we find that rock crystals also have pairs.
The Qur'an says: And of everything We have created pairs: That ye may receive Instruction.
Surah Zariyat, 51: 49 A. Yusuf All in note 5025 item (3) says " All things are in twos: sex in plants and animals, by which one individual is complementary to another; in the subtle forces of nature. Day and Night, positive and negative electricity, forces of attraction and repulsion: and numerous other opposites, each fulfilling its purpose, and contributing to the working of God's Universe; and in the moral and spiritual world. Love and Aversion, Mercy and Justice, Striving and Rest, and so on;-all fulfilling their functions according to the Artistry and wonderful Purpose of God. Everything has its counterpart, or pair, or complement. God alone is One, with none like Him, or needed to complement Him. These are noble things to contemplate. And they lead us to a true understanding of God's Purpose and Message."
http://www.science4islam.com/html/sci-04e.html…we find in the following verse more generalizations where Allah Says; (And of everything we have created pairs, that ye may receive instruction). The word “thing we together with the people who preceded us have understood it to be inclusive to contain humans, plants and animals. Since the Quran has included them all in this verse and told us that all creatures were made up of males and females.
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf
PLANTS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALE
Previously humans did not know that plants too have male and female gender distinctions. Botany states that every plant has a male and female gender. Even the plants that are unisexual have distinct elements of both male and female. “‘And has sent Down water from the sky.’ With it have We produced Diverse pairs of plants Each separate from the others.” [Al- Qur’aan 20:53]
FRUITS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALE
“And fruit Of every kind He made In pairs, two and two.” [Al-Qur’aan
13:3]
Fruit is the end product of reproduction of the superior plants. The stage
preceding fruit is the flower, which has male and female organs (stamens and ovules). Once pollen has been carried to the flower, they bear fruit, which in turn matures and frees its seed. All fruits therefore imply the existence of male and female organs; a fact that is mentioned in the Qur’aan.
In certain species, fruit can come from non-fertilized flowers (parthenocarpic fruit) e.g. bananas, certain types of pineapple, fig, orange, vine, etc. They also have definite sexual characteristics.
EVERYTHING MADE IN PAIRS
“And of everything We have created pairs.” [Al-Qur’aan 51:49]
This refers to things other than humans, animals, plants and fruits. It may also be referring to a phenomenon like electricity in which the atoms consist of negatively – and positively – charged electrons and protons.
“Glory to Allah, Who created In pairs all things that The earth produces,
as well as Their own (human) kind And (other) things of which They
have no knowledge.” [Al-Qur’aan 36:36]
The Qur’aan here says that everything is created in pairs, including things that the humans do not know at present and may discover later.
MATTER AND ANTIMATTER
Some Islamists claim the mere existence of antimatter complements to matter, without regard to their relative abundance (matter dominates in our universe after the first second post the Big Bang) proves the validity of the ‘creation in pairs’ verses, particularly 43:12, 51:49, and especially 36:36 (as in “pairs of things unknown to them”). The ‘things unknown to them’ part supposedly refers to our modern understanding of particle physics.
The British physicist Paul Dirac, who discovered that matter was created in pairs, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1933. This finding, known as "parity," revealed the duality known as matter and antimatter. Antimatter bears the opposite characteristics to matter. For instance, contrary to matter, antimatter electrons are positive and protons negative.
An Islamist making this sort of claim is Osama Abdallah of Answering-Christianity.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/john_wuurt.htm
Rebutting the Islamists Case
The case against the Quran and the Islamists is really very simple. All one has to do is to show that not all creatures are ‘created’ in pairs. My opinion is that Muhammad, being the camel-riding, scimitar-wielding, raping & pillaging desert bandit that he was, didn’t have access to a microscope or a good Level 1 biology textbook. Therefore, he couldn’t have known about asexual organisms, parthenogenetic organisms, or hermaphrodites.
It was all too easy for Muhammad to observe male and female humans, camels, dogs, and even devils, jinns, and angels. But as he had no idea about micro-organisms and herpetology he was unaware that he was mistaken in his belief that all creatures came in males and females.
The alternative theses are also interesting: either Allah forgot He created asexual, parthenogenetic, and hermaphroditic organisms; Allah forgot to tell Jibreel; Jibreel didn’t listen to Allah; or Jibreel forgot to tell Muhammad.
Given this glaring mistake that all creatures are created in (male-female) pairs it is clear that Muhammad made up the Quran.
1. The Quran leaves out asexual organisms.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex1.htm
Asexual reproduction is found in the majority of living organisms, including most plants, protists (e.g. bacteria, protozoans, and unicellular algae and fungi), and many lower invertebrates such as tapeworms.
Other examples of asexual reproductive organisms are hydrae and many lower plants (e.g. ferns). Some organisms are also capable of regeneration, a specialized form of asexual reproduction, for example starfish, polyps, zebrafish, flatworms, newts, and salamanders. Many plants are capable of total regeneration. Among animals, the lower the form, the more capable it is of total regeneration; no vertebrates have this power (except artificially in the lab). Regeneration is closely allied to vegetative reproduction, the formation of a new individual by various parts of the organism not specialized for reproduction. The highest animals that exhibit vegetative reproduction are the colonial tunicates (e.g. sea squirts), which, much like plants, send out runners in the form of stolons, small parts of which form buds that develop into new individuals.
(Note that hydra and jellyfish and many primarily asexual organisms are also capable of sexual reproduction – however many simple organisms like bacterial, yeasts and Fungi Imperfecti are totally asexual).
2. The Quran leaves out hermaphrodites.
Some creatures, including plants, are totally hermaphrodites. For example, sponges, snails, the slug-like sea hare, and some kinds of deep-sea arrow worms are hermaphrodites, that is, they have both sexes in one body.
Some creatures also change their sex during their life-cycles: Quahogs (hard-shell clams) are born and grow up male, but later half of them turn female. Slipper shells and cup and saucer shells do this too; they commence every season as males, but nearly all of them later pass through a phase of ambisexuality and turn into adult females. Some species change sex depending on their environment, such as the marine worm Ophryotrocha, if the portly young females are later underfed they revert back into males again. Some fish can also change sex spontaneously, for example some groupers and guppies.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex2.htm#s5
Some Islamists may try to claim that hermaphrodites are actually a male-female pair as both sexes are included in the one organism. It may be that in a population some hermaphrodites act as males while others act as females. This Islamist claim, of course, would be totally dishonest as a hermaphrodite, by definition, is both male and female at once, even if performing one of its sexual functions at the one time.
3. The Quran leaves out parthenogenetic organisms.
Parthenogenesis is a form of reproduction in which the ovum develops into a new individual without fertilization. Natural parthenogenesis has been observed in many lower animals (it is characteristic of the rotifers), especially insects, e.g., the aphid. In many social insects, such as the honeybee and the ant, the unfertilized eggs give rise to the male drones and the fertilized eggs to the female workers and queens.
Note that the aphids, bees and ants are not true parthenogenetic organisms as they are also capable of sexual reproduction.
However, Muhammad apparently didn’t know about the 15 species of whiptail lizard (genus Cnemidophorus) that are wholly parthenogenetic, for example Cnemidophorus tigris (Western whiptail) and C. neomexicanus, nor did he know about the Ambystomids, the unisexual hybrid salamanders.
http://members.aol.com/Attic21/CreatureofDay/whip.html
He also didn’t know about the Island or Brahminy Blind Snake, Ramphotyphlops braminus, the only parthenogenetic snake in the world which happens to originate from the Pacific Islands (lands unknown to Arabs in Muhammad’s time).
4. The Chinese Yin-Yang duality concept.
Islamists claim the Quran’s ‘creation in pairs’ verses, especially 36:36 refers to our modern understanding of matter antimatter complements. Some critics respond by highlighting the relative paucity of antimatter compared to matter, particularly as most antimatter was destroyed in the first second after the Big Bang. http://www.answer-islam.org/earth_in_islam.htm
Nevertheless, some Islamist might claim that the mere fact that antimatter exists proves the Quranic ‘creation in pairs’ verses to be miraculous as how could a seventh century bandit know about matter antimatter?
Unfortunately for the Islamist polemicists, the ancient Chinese already believed in the duality of all creation. This duality principle is known as ‘Yin and Yang’, part of the Taoist belief system. The date of origin of the Yin-Yang duality principle is unknown, however all reasonable estimates predate Islam by at least two thousand five hundred years. {Note the Yin-Yang symbol dates back to at least 400BC and was present in ancient Shang Dynasty Bronze but the Yin-Yang principle dated much earlier.}
| Quote: |
| The Yellow Emperor, legendary Chinese emperor and cultural hero ruling from 2698 BC to 2598 BC and considered to be the ancestor of the Han Chinese, said “The principle of Ying and Yang is the foundation of the entire universe. It underlies everything in creation. It brings about the development of parenthood; it is the root and source of life and death… |
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~maa1/chi/philos/yinyangsymbol.htm
These quotes about Yin-Yang show that it may be extended to matter antimatter complements:
| Quote: |
| Counterparts and conflicting opposites, they complemented each other in the formation of a creative force whose products were heaven and earth with its fruits. |
http://religion-cults.com/Eastern/Taoism/taoism.htm
| Quote: |
| According to the theoretical physics developed in the twentieth century the principle of Yin Yang and the use of paradox persist; when there is matter there must also be antimatter. |
http://home.iprimus.com.au/btheos/articles/AncientChineseWisdom-1.htm
Thus, it is hardly miraculous for the Quran to claim ‘creation in pairs’ of all things known and unknown when the ancient Chinese already believed in a remarkably similar duality principle at least two thousand years before Islam.
4. The Rig Veda.
Islamists are not unique among religious polemicists who reinterpret ancient scriptures in the light of modern science. Dr Raja Ram Mohan Roy, a physical scientist, in “VEDIC PHYSICS: Scientific Origin of Hinduism; Golden Egg Publishing” makes such a claim that the Rig Veda already presaged the modern scientific understanding of matter antimatter complements.
http://www.rameshnrao.com/religion-philosophy-re-reading-the-rig-veda.html
http://www.indiastar.com/closepet5.html
| Quote: |
| Thus the contracting universe is "Martanda", the living universe Vivasvana, the first pair of particle and anti-particle (matter and antimatter) are "Yama" and "Manu", the early part of the universe when the surface tension was the most important force constraining the expansion of the universe the battle between these two forces is the immortalized epic battle of Indra and Vrtra. |
It is also claimed that the Purusha sukta from Yajuraranayaka (3:13, 33& 34) alluded to antimatter, dark matter and black holes. http://www.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdisplay.aspx?cid=2908
CONCLUSION
Therefore, based on the existence of asexual, hermaphroditic and parthenogenetic organisms, the Quranic verses about Allah creating ALL CREATURES in pairs (male and female) is debunked. The ancient Chinese Yin-Yang duality principle proves that the any spurious Islamist claim of ‘creation in pairs’ to mean matter antimatter complements to be unremarkable. Besides, some Hindus make similar claims about the Rig-Veda as the Islamists make about the Quran about scriptural allusions to matter and antimatter. _________________ What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.
Last edited by Hector on Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:18 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:13 am Post subject: |
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QURAN AND SEMEN PRODUCTION
INTRODUCTION
Several Islamists promulgate the Quranic Pseudoscience of Semen Production from between the sulb and the tara’ib. There are at least seven distinct classes of Islamist explanations, all of these can be proven false.
There are excellent articles debunking these Islamist assertions, for example those of Dr William Campbell in http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/blemish.htm, Sam Samoun in http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/semenproduction.htm and http://www.answeringislam.info/Shamoun/wonders.htm
Here is Pickthall’s translation of relevant verses 86:5-7 from Surah At-Tariq.
| Quote: |
So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid That issued from between the loins and ribs.
Falyanthuri al-insanu mimma khuliqa Khuliqa min ma-in dafiqin Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttara-ibi |
This article aims to summarize the case against the various Islamist claims so that a comprehensive review can be made of this important issue.
The seven Islamist explanations are as follows:
1. Drs Maurice Bucaille and A.K. Giraud – sulb and tara’ib refer to the sexual areas of the man and woman.
2. Ahmed A. Abd-Allah – accepts and extends Bucaille’s assumption, and claims that all the acknowledged translations and tafsirs are in error, as sulb and tara’ib do not mean a man’s backbone and ribs, but a man’s “hardening” (i.e. penis) and a woman’s erogenous zones (not including the vagina).
3. Dr Zakir Naik – sulb and tara’ib refer to the backbone and ribs of both sexes, however the verses refers only to the gonads in the embryonic stage, and not to adults in the act of sexual reproduction.
4. Dr Jamal Badawi – the verses refer not to semen production but to the blood of the aorta as the ‘gushing fluid poured forth’.
5. Ibn Kathir – sulb refers to the man’s backbone, and tara’ib refers to the woman’s chest.
6. Muhammad Asad – sulb refers to the man’s loins and tara’ib refers to the woman’s pelvic arch.
7. Moiz Amjad, the “Learner”, makes three claims; a) sulb and tara’ib refer to the blood supply of the testes emanating from between the man’s back and ribs, b) the embryonic gonads originate in the area as per Dr Zakir Naik, and c) the sulb and tara’ib region is an euphemism for the male sexual organ.
ANALYSIS
1. Dr Maurice Bucaille
| Quote: |
"Two verses in the Qur'an deal with sexual relations themselves...When translations and explanatory commentaries are consulted however, one is struck by the divergences between them. I have pondered for a long time on the translation of such verses (In plain English that means there is "an improbability or a contradiction, prudishly called a `difficulty'" ), and am indebted to Doctor A. K. Giraud, Former Professor at the Faculty of Medicine, Beirut, for the following:
`(Man was fashioned from a liquid poured out. It issued (as a result) of the conjunction of the sexual area of the man and the sexual area of the woman.'
"The sexual area of the man is indicated in the text of the Qur'an by the word sulb (singular). The sexual areas of the woman are designated in the Qur'an by the word tara'ib (plural).
"This is the translation which appears to be most satisfactory." |
http://www.al-islam.com/articles/articles-e.asp?fname=Q_S018
While there is evidence that sulb can mean “hardening” and thus, the penis, there is no evidence that tara’ib can mean the vagina. Bucaille and Giraud appear to have assumed that tara’ib means the ’sexual areas of the woman’, without providing supporting evidence. Even if tara'ib means what Bucaille and Giraud want it to mean, the term, 'sexual areas of the woman' is too vague to be meaningful. To assume that it means the vagina is merely an assumption, and may constitute the logical fallacy of equivocation.
Therefore, Bucaille is debunked.
2. Ahmed A. Abd-Allah
Abd-Allah extends Bucaille’s proposition, providing dictionaries and tafsirs to support his case that sulb means ‘hardening’ and tara’ib means the sexual areas of the woman.
I am indebted to Abd-Allah for his definition of sulb.
| Quote: |
| Note that 'sulb' is *singular*. In the dictionary by Wehr you cite below, you will see that its meaning of backbone is *only* when we take the *plural* word of sulb (aslaab). In its singular form, it means hardening. |
I do find it surprising that almost all the commonly available translations of the Quran refer to sulb as the backbone, though some refer to loins. Even Ibn Kathir accepts backbone. Is Wehr a more authoritative and knowledgeable authority on the Arabic language than Ibn Kathir? This is difficult to believe. Truly the Quran is miraculous.
Regardless, Abd-Allah’s proposition collapses with his own definitions of tara’ib. He failed to show that his tafsirs and dictionaries explain tara’ib to mean vagina. Instead, tara’ib is defined as breasts, eyes, legs and chest. Any sexually-experienced man (unlike a juvenile like Abd-Allah) would know that while erogenous zones are important in foreplay, the sexual act really must be consummated through the vagina.
Further Abd-Allah’s reference to Ibn Kathir’s tafsir is disingenuous as he only mentioned the half of the description that supports his case (i.e. tara’ib refers to the woman), while leaving out the other half that debunks his case (i.e. tara’ib is the woman’s ribs). This selective quoting may be construed by many readers to be deceptive and deceitful.
3. Dr Zakir Naik
| Quote: |
MAN CREATED FROM A DROP EMITTED FROM BETWEEN THE BACK BONE AND THE RIBS
“Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted – Proceeding from between The back bone and the ribs.” [Al-Qur’aan 86:5-7]
In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads (ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads (testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the backbone (spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area. |
Firstly, Dr Naik’s embryology is a little askew as the original position of the cells destined to develop into spermatogonia (sperm producing cells) is not ventro-medial to the kidneys (where they undoubted develop) but in the wall of the yolk sac.
| Quote: |
Testes and ovaries are derived from the mesodermal epithelium (mesothelium) lining the posterior abdominal wall, the underlying mesenchyme and the primordial germ cells.
The primordial germ cells form in the wall of the yolk sac during week 4 ( The Developing Human, 6th ed., p. 323, fig. 13-28 ). They later migrate into the developing gonads at week 6 and differentiate into the definitive germ cells (oogonia / spermatogonia). |
http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/duong/EMBRYOL.html
Even if we accept Dr Naik’s assertion that the verse refers to the embryonic testes, it is unclear whether the gonads are located where he claims, i.e. between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. This cross-sectional diagram of the human embryo shows the gonads at or around the level of the placenta.
Thus, it is not strictly true that the embryonic testes is located specifically between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs as the gonadal or genital ridge (precursor of the gonads) is commonly believed to lie medial to the lower part of the mesonephros while the adult kidney actually develops from the metanephros.
It is incorrect to assume the position of the embryonic gonads from the position of the adult kidneys because the embryonic positions of gonads and kidneys are not the same as their adult positions. Gonads descend while kidneys enlarge and ascend. It should also be noted that the developing gonads are ventro-medial to the mesonephros (i.e. the embryonic kidney) and not the metanephros (which would develop into the adult kidney). Hence it would seem that Zakir Naik does not know the embryology of the urogenital system and cannot differentiate between the mesonephros and the metanephros.
Even if we were to accept Naik’s implied association between embryonic and adult anatomical positions, he is also wrong because in the condition of cryptorchidism where the testes is undescended, the highest position of the undescended testes is BELOW the kidney. http://www.nakshatras.net/genetics_basics.htm
Note that the inferior pole of the kidney lies around L3 (the third lumbar vertebra), thus the embryonic testes must be BELOW L3. The 12th rib does not extend below L2. Since the testes are BELOW the kidneys, there is no possibility that the testes were ever between the ribs and the backbone either in the embryonic or the adult (as with cryptorchidism) stage.
Further, it seems disingenuous to interpret a ‘drop emitted, proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs’ to mean the embryonic development of the testes, as the ‘drop emitted’ suggests a fully developed and functional testes, rather than an embryonic structure. Embryonic testes do not emit, ejaculate, gush forth, pour forth, spurt or ejaculate any substance; only the peri- and post-pubertal testes do.
Lastly, Naik’s explanation of the nerve, blood and lymphatic circular from the abdominal aorta is irrelevant and constitutes the logical fallacy of the red herring. This is because verses 85:6 speak about ‘a drop emitted’, commonly taken to mean semen and semen only as this drop is directly responsible for human reproduction, something which cannot be claimed for nerve signals, blood or lymph. Further, circulation and nerve supply do not correlate with embryonic origin. For example, the blood supply, lymphatics and nerve supply of the lower limbs originate in the abdomen and pelvis. Does that mean the lower limbs embryonically originated in the abdomen and pelvis? No.
4. Dr Jamal Badawi
| Quote: |
| Badawi must assume that "gushing fluid poured forth" refers to the aorta which according to a book cited by him, Clinical Anatomy, supplies the testes and ovaries with the necessary nutrients and this is what the Quran refers to. |
http://www.answeringislam.info/Shamoun/wonders.htm
Dr Badawi’s proposition is debunked with the same explanation given for Naik’s blood circulation proposition.
5. Ibn Kathir
| Quote: |
Yakhruju min bayni as-sulbi w'at-tara'ib
Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs
This concludes the description started in ayah 5. The following is an excerpt of commentary on this passage, from Tafsir Ibn Kathir:
Referring to the creation of man from a drop of fluid gushing forth from between the backbone and the ribs, Allah emphasizes the inherent weakness of man... Allah says that man has been created from a mix of seminal fluid of man which gushes forth from the backbone and the yellowish fluid of woman that flows from her ribs. |
http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/a_quranic_journal/002121.php
Modern medical science suggests that semen does not emanate from a man’s backbone, nor do a woman’s sexual secretions emanate from her ribs.
6. Muhammad Asad
| Quote: |
(5) LET MAN, then, observe out of what he has been created:
(6) he has been created out of a seminal fluid
(7) issuing from between the loins [of man] and the pelvic arch [of woman].
* The plural noun tara'ib, rendered by me as "pelvic arch", has also the meaning of "ribs" or "arch of bones"; according to most of the authorities who have specialized in the etymology of rare Quranic expressions this term relates specifically to female anatomy (Taj al-'Arus). |
http://www.geocities.com/masad02/086.html
Even if we accept Muhammad Asad’s definition of sulb as the male loins, it is a stretch of the imagination to accept that sexual reproduction is the consequence of a union between the male loins and the female pelvic arch. Note that the tafsir does not claim tara’ib means the pelvis, but the pelvic arch which is a specific part of the pelvis. This suggests that a claim of euphemism cannot apply due to the specificity of the description.
7. Moiz Amjad
The “Learner”, makes three claims;
a) sulb and tara’ib refer to the blood supply of the testes emanating from between the man’s back and ribs,
This is debunked as for Dr Naik.
b) the embryonic gonads originate in the area, as per Dr Zakir Naik,
This is debunked as for Dr Naik.
c) the sulb and tara’ib region is an euphemism for the male sexual organ.
Amjad’s hilarious attempt to show this by drawing lines on pictures of a human skeleton is unworthy of formal refutation due to its patent absurdity. Any line can enclose any human organ if that line is drawn on the surface of the body.
CONCLUSION
The various Islamists attempts to show that the Quran correctly describes semen production are not supported by modern scientific knowledge.
These Islamist propositions are frequently conflicting, for instance, Ibn Kathir refers to tara’ib as a female organ, while other tafsirs claim it belongs to the man.
http://www.montazar.net/eng/menu/1/quran/tafseer/tafseer-of-holy-quran/light/html/086/86_1-10.htm Another conflict is the definition of sulb to mean either the backbone or the ‘hardening’ or the loins. Truly the Quran is miraculous.
A point often missed, though alluded to by Dr Campbell, is the phrase “min bain” which literally means “from between”. If this interpretation is accepted, which seems to be from a reading of the commonly available translations, then one must also note that semen emanates FROM the penis, and not FROM BETWEEN the penis and the vagina. To be strictly correct, semen emanates FROM the penis INTO the vagina. This point seems to rule out tara’ib as being anything to do with the female sexual partner.
REFERENCES
The Message of the Quran by Muhammad Asad http://www.geocities.com/masad02/086.html
Answering Dr. Jamal Badawi: A Christian Response to Dr. Jamal Badawi's "Seven Wonders of The Quran" by Sam Shamoun http://www.answeringislam.info/Shamoun/wonders.htm
The Qur'an and Sex Education by Dr Maurice Bucaille http://www.al-islam.com/articles/articles-e.asp?fname=Q_S018
The Quran on Semen Production by Sam Shamoun http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/semenproduction.htm
Ahmed A. Abd-Allah http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/blemish.htm
No Scientific Problems (Errors?!?) in the Quran by Dr William Campbell http://answering-islam.org.uk/Campbell/s4c2b.html
Does Semen Emanate From Between the Ribs and the Back? (Al-Taariq 86: 6 - 7) by Moiz Amjad http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=100
The Qur’aan and Modern Science: Compatible or Incompatible by Dr Zaki Naik. http://www.ymofmd.com/books/qms.pdf
Last edited by Hector on Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:30 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
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QURAN AND MOUNTAINS
INTRODUCTION
Many people have already demolished this canard that the Quran is validated by the geological science about mountains. I'd like to add to this demolition by addressing several new points that Islamists are adopting to 'justify' their so-called Quranic Science or to 'squirm' from the scientific truths provided against this 'Quranic Science' by sceptics.
It has been my privilege to witness the Islamist argument of “Mountains as Pegs Stabilizing the Earth”. Due to Allah making the Quran ‘clear and easy to understand’ and the ‘richness of the Arabic language,’ Islamists have been able to use the ‘vague’ interpretations of several Quranic verses in their attempt to prove the scientific validity of the Quran. In this, they are backed by a Muslim geologist specializing in biostratification, Professor Zaghloul Raghib El Naggar, and a Western surgeon, Dr Maurice Bucaille.
It is also my observation that the tactics of the Islamists are as follows:
A. If a word has multiple meanings or translations, they will choose the one that suits them best at the time, ignoring all the rest as if they never existed.
B. If unable to come up with a valid response, the Islamists will claim that only a genuine intimacy with Classical Arabic will enable the proper understanding of a given verse and then, rather ironically, proceed to argue in the English language.
C. They will add complexity to an otherwise ‘simple’ verse without explanation nor justification. An example is the extension from ‘peg’ to ‘isostacy’ to ‘stabilize the crust/lithosphere/earth’.
D. They will switch from the ‘literal’ to ‘metaphorical’ case whenever convenient. A sure sign of loss will be when they claim that the Quran is not a book of Science but Scripture, despite previously or concurrently promulgating the validity of ‘Quranic Science’.
Here are the relevant verses:
| Quote: |
31:10
Pickthall: He hath created the heavens without supports that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm hills, so that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed therein all kinds of beasts. And We send down water from the sky and We cause (plants) of every goodly kind to grow therein.
Yusuf Ali: He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.
Shakir: He created the heavens without pillars as you see them, and put mountains upon the earth lest it might convulse with you, and He spread in it animals of every kind; and We sent down water from the cloud, then caused to grow therein (vegetation) of every noble kind.
Sher Ali: HE has created the heavens without any pillars that you can see, and HE has placed in the earth firm mountains that it may not quake with you, and HE has spread therein all kinds of creatures; and WE have sent down water from the clouds, and have caused to grow therein of every fine species.
Khalifa: He created the heavens without pillars that you can see. He established on earth stabilizers (mountains) lest it tumbles with you, and He spread on it all kinds of creatures. We send down from the sky water to grow all kinds of beautiful plants.
Palmer: He created the heavens without pillars that ye can see, and He threw upon the earth firm mountains lest it should move with you; and He dispersed thereon every sort of beast; and we send down from the heavens water, and we caused to grow therein of every noble kind.
Sale: He hath created the heavens without visible pillars [to sustain them], and hath thrown on the earth [mountains] firmly rooted, lest it should move with you; and he hath replenished the same with all kinds of beasts: And we send down rain from heaven, and cause every kind of noble [vegetable] to spring forth therein.
Rodwell: Without pillars that can be seen hath He created the heavens, and on the earth hath thrown mountains lest it should move with you; and He hath scattered over it animals of every sort: and from the Heaven we send down rain and cause every kind of noble plant to grow up therein.
“Progressive Muslims”: He created the heavens without pillars that you can see. And He placed in the earth firm stabilizers so that it would not tumble with you, and He spread on it all kinds of creatures. And We sent down water from the sky, thus We caused to grow all kinds of good plants.
Transliterated Arabic: Khalaqa alssamawati bighayri AAamadin tarawnaha waalqa fee al-ardi rawasiya an tameeda bikum wabaththa feeha min kulli dabbatin waanzalna mina alssama-i maan faanbatna feeha min kulli zawjin kareemin
21:31
Khalifa: : And we placed on earth stabilizers, lest it tumbles with them, and we placed Pickthall: And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.
Yusuf Ali: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.
Shakir: And We have made great mountains in the earth lest it might be convulsed with them, and We have made in it wide ways that they may follow a right direction.
Sher Ali: And WE have placed in the earth firm mountains lest it should quake with them; and WE have made therein wide pathways, that they may be rightly guided.
Khalifa: And we placed on earth stabilizers, lest it tumbles with them, and we placed straight roads therein, that they may be guided.
Palmer: And we placed on the earth firm mountains lest it should move with them, and He made therein open roads for paths, haply they may be guided!
Sale: And we placed stable [mountains] on the earth, lest it should move with them; and we made broad passages between them for paths, that they might be directed [in their journeys]:
Rodwell: And we set mountains on the earth lest it should move with them, and we made on it broad passages between them as routes for their guidance;
“Progressive Muslims”: And We made on the earth stabilizers so that it would not tumble with you, and We made in it wide paths that they may be guided.
Transliterated Arabic: WajaAAalna fee al-ardi rawasiya an tameeda bihim wajaAAalna feeha fijajan subulan laAAallahum yahtadoona
16:15
Pickthall: And He hath cast into the earth firm hills that it quake not with you, and streams and roads that ye may find a way.
Yusuf Ali: And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;
Shakir: And He has cast great mountains in the earth lest it might be convulsed with you, and rivers and roads that you may go aright,
Sher Ali: And HE has placed in the earth firm mountains lest it quake with you and rivers and routes that you may find the way to your destination.
Khalifa: And He placed stabilizers (mountains) on earth, lest it tumbles with you, as well as rivers and roads, that you may be guided.
Palmer: And He has cast firm mountains on the earth lest it move with you; and rivers and roads; haply ye may be guided.
Sale: And he hath thrown upon the earth [mountains] firmly rooted, lest it should move with you, and [also] rivers, and paths, that ye might be directed:
Rodwell: And He hath thrown firm mountains on the earth, least it move with you; and rivers and paths for your guidance,
“Progressive Muslims”: And He has cast into the earth stabilizers so that it does not sway with you, and rivers, and paths, perhaps you will be guided.
Transliterated Arabic: Waalqa fee al-ardi rawasiya an tameeda bikum waanharan wasubulan laAAallakum tahtadoona
78:6-7
Pickthall: Have We not made the earth an expanse, And the high hills bulwarks?
Yusuf Ali: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs?
Shakir: Have We not made the earth an even expanse? And the mountains as projections (thereon)?
Sher Ali: Have WE not made the earth as a bed, And the mountains as pegs?
Khalifa: Did we not make the earth habitable? And the mountains stabilizers?
Palmer: Have we not set the earth as a couch, and the mountains as stakes,
Sale: Have we not made the earth for a bed, and the mountains for stakes [to fix the same]?
Rodwell: Have we not made the Earth a couch? And the mountains its tent-stakes?
“Progressive Muslims”: Did We not make the earth a resting ground? And the mountains as pegs?
Transliterated Arabic: Alam najAAali al-arda mihadan Waaljibala awtadan
15:19
Pickthall: And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein.
Yusuf Ali: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
Shakir: And the earth -- We have spread it forth and made in it firm mountains and caused to grow in it of every suitable thing.
Sher Ali: And the earth have WE spread out, and set therein firm mountains and cause every thing to grow therein in proper proportion.
Khalifa: As for the earth, we constructed it, and placed on it stabilizers (mountains), and we grew on it a perfect balance of everything.
Palmer: And the earth we have stretched out and have thrown on it firm mountains, and have caused to grow upon it of everything a measured quantity.
Sale: We have also spread forth the earth, and thrown thereon stable [mountains]; and we have caused every kind of [vegetable] to spring forth in the same, according to a determinate weight:
Rodwell: And the Earth have We spread forth, and thrown thereon the mountains, and caused everything to spring forth in it in balanced measure:
“Progressive Muslims”: And the land We have stretched, and placed stabilizers in it, and We have planted in it everything in balance.
Transliterated Arabic: Waal-arda madadnaha waalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatna feeha min kulli shay-in mawzoonin |
The relevant Arabic terms are: awtad for pegs/bulwarks/stabilizers/ projections[1]; rawasiya for mountains, and tameeda for tumble/shake/quake/convulse/sway etc.[2]
Wehr translates this word as unshakable mountains. The Munjid says (al-jibal al-thawabat al-ruwasikh) firmly established, fixed mountains. The word comes from the root (arsa), the same root used for the Arabic word for anchor. To throw out or cast the anchor is (alqa almirsah). So instead of "cast the anchor to keep the ship from moving", we have "cast the mountains to keep the earth from shaking"[2]
Naik translated awtad as stakes or pegs (like those used to anchor a tent). [1]
The most pertinent verse is 16:15 transliterated as follows:
Waalqa fee al-ardi rawasiya an tameeda bikum waanharan wasubulan laAAallakum tahtadoona.
Note the verse uses the word 'ard' which can be used to describe the Earth, its surface, or the ground in general, an example of Islamist language vagueness – meaning that it can refer to anything from the Earth, the crust, the lithosphere, the mantle or any combination of the above that suits the Islamist argument at the time.
Also note that the word ‘tameeda’ is claimed to refer to shaking or disturbance, as opposed to ‘zalzala’ which means ‘earthquake.’ A further dissection of this term will be given later.
Other interpretations of verse 21:31 are as follows:
| Quote: |
Bewley: We placed firmly embedded mountains on the Earth so it would not move under them...
Daryabadi: And We have placed in the Earth firm mountains lest it should move away with them...
Hilali & Khan: And We have placed in the Earth firm mountains lest it should shake with them...
Al-Muntakhab: And We furnished the Earth with firm stays, mountains placed in a certain setting, fixed as with an anchor, to stabilize it lest it should sway you from side to side or in all directions...
Sarwar: We placed firm mountains on Earth lest it would shake them away...
Asad: And We have set up firm mountains on Earth lest it sway with them... |
There is another verse that may suggest that Mountains have roots, but only when Islamists choose to use a certain definition in a typically vague verse:
| Quote: |
20:105
Pickthall: They will ask thee of the mountains (on that day). Say: My Lord will break them into scattered dust.
Yusuf Ali: They ask thee concerning the Mountains: say, "My Lord will uproot them and scatter them as dust;
Shakir: And they ask you about the mountains. Say: My Lord will carry them away from the roots.
Sher Ali: And they ask thee concerning the mountains. Say, `My Lord will break them into pieces and scatter them as dust;
Khalifa: They ask you about the mountains. Say, "My Lord will wipe them out.
Palmer: They will ask thee about the mountains; say, 'My Lord will scatter them in scattered pieces,
Sale: They will ask thee concerning the mountains: Answer, my Lord will reduce them to dust, and scatter them abroad;
Rodwell: And they will ask thee of the mountains: SAY: scattering my Lord will scatter them in dust;
"Progressive Muslims": And they ask you about the mountains, say: "My Lord will annihilate them completely."
Transliterated Arabic: Wayas-aloonaka AAani aljibali faqul yansifuha rabbee nasfan |
Many translations translate the word 'yansifuha' as wipe out, break, carry away, annihilate, destroy, and crush, but Islamists will prefer the meaning, ‘uproot’, as the Yusef Ali and Al-Muntakhab versions have done.
DISCUSSION
Islamists believe the geological facts about Mountains validate the Quran. A summary of their case is as follows:
A. Mountains have deep roots thus they resemble ‘pegs’.
(Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux, p. 220)
On the ‘surface’ (excuse the pun), the Islamists have a point here. Verse 78:6-7 says, “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs?”
Islamists point to the fact of isostacy where the bulk of the mountain extends into the upper mantle as proof that Muhammad couldn’t have known that mountains were ‘pegs’ staking the crust to the upper mantle unless Allah told him.
Sounds convincing? Herein lies the genius of the Quran – to make definitions so vague as to provide the Islamists sufficient ‘wriggle room’.
Rebuttal:
These pictures from Islamist sites resemble ‘very blunt’ pegs. In fact, they resemble pegs only with imagination.
The observation here is that Islamists equate ‘deep mountain roots’ with ‘pegs’. There are several difficulties with this interpretation in that not all mountains have peg-like roots. An analysis of mountain formation reveals the fact that not all mountains have peg-like roots, for example volcanoes; those formed by extension and faulting (e.g. the Nevada Basin and Range); thrust and fold belts (e.g. Appalachians, Eastern Bolivian Andes, Zagros Mountain, the Calcareous Alps).
A cross-section of the collisional Himalayas reveals a broad ‘wedge’ rather than Cailleux’s schematic ‘peg’ diagram:
http://wellspring.ess.sunysb.edu/html/seminar/Jackson04.pdf
As do the Pyrenees:
http://www.virtualexplorer.com.au/2002/8/verges/img/Verges_Fig_08.jpg
Therefore it appears likely that the Islamists are mistaken when they claim that Mountains are Pegs in the literal sense. They base their claims on a single schematic diagram and not from a more comprehensive survey of mountain types and genuine geological data.
For these reasons, I will concede that Mountains are Pegs only in the metaphorical sense, but definitely not in the literal sense.
Muslims also seem incredulous that Muhammad should have known that mountains have 'roots', arguing that since the bulk of the mountain is below ground it is unobservable. Muhammad could only have referred to mountain roots (like pegs) from a divine source. Unfortunately this may not be true since ancient people already knew mountains have roots. For example, the ancient Hebrews seemed to have acquired this knowledge.
Jonah 2 To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. But you brought my life up from the pit, O LORD my God.
***
B. Deep roots stabilize the earth (or mountain roots act as pegs).
| Quote: |
| The role of mountains as stabilizers for the Earth's crust can be clearly seen in their very deep roots, and can be justified by the fact that the motions of the lithospheric plates only come to halt when a continent collides with another, producing a collisional type mountain, which is believed to be the last phase in mountain-building. Without mountains, the movement of lithospheric plates would have been much faster and their collision more drastic. Even though mountains do act as retarders for the plate movements, they should not be understood to be an independent force or factor, because they are the very product of this motion in the first place.[3] |
and
| Quote: |
| "Modern geologists describe the folds in the Earth as giving foundations to the mountains, and their dimensions go roughly one mile to roughly 10 miles. The stability of the Earth's crust results from the phenomenon of these folds." |
Rebuttal:
The Islamist author of this proposition seems to have confused Cause with Effect. In his example of continental-collisional type mountains, he failed to see that mountains are caused by tectonic plate collision and do not effect plate stabilization.
It is possible that the reason why lithospheric plates come to a (slow) halt is not due to mountains but due to the opposing plates. The Islamist proposition is akin to saying that in an automobile collision, the crushed engine compartment stabilizes the car during the crash. In reality, the crushed engine compartment (analogy = mountain) is the effect of the crash (analogy = tectonic plate collision). It does not stabilize the car during the collision.
In short, there is no scientific evidence that continental-collisional type mountains stabilize tectonic plates. All assertions to this effect are mere opinion without scientific foundations.
C. Mountains stabilize the earth because plate movements are impeded by their formation.
| Quote: |
| The sea-deep roots stabilize the continental masses (or plates), as plate motions are almost completely halted by their formation, especially when the mountain mass is finally entrapped within a continent as an old craton.[4] |
Rebuttal:
In his enthusiasm to validate the Quran with modern geology, Professor El Naggar also seems to have confused Cause and Effect. Plate motions are almost completely halted not by collisional-type mountain formation (effect) but by the opposing plates.
Further, this seems merely Professor El Naggar’s opinion – a search of the good professor’s CV has singularly failed to find refereed scientific proof of his assertion. In fact, El Naggar’s scientific career is built on the study of biostratification, not on the evidence that mountains stabilize continental masses. The only references to Professor El Naggar on mountains are un-refereed Islamic conferences on supposed Islamic Science. http://www.elnaggarzr.com/CV-E.htm
Therefore, I assert that El Naggar’s opinion is merely a classical example of the logical fallacy of Argumentum Ad Verecundiam.
If one were to accept such argumentum ad verecundiam, one would also have to accept Professor David A. Young’s opinion.
| Quote: |
| "While it is true that many mountain ranges are composed of folded rocks (and the folds may be of large scale) it is not true that the folds render the crust stable. The very existence of the folds is evidence of instability in the crust."[1] |
In other words, mountains don't keep the earth from shaking. Their formation caused and still causes the surface of the earth to shake.
D. Mountain stabilize the lithospheric plates by sinking into the asthenosphere.
| Quote: |
| The stabilization of lithospheric plates by mountains is effected by their sinking deeply into the zone of weakness of the Earth (the asthenosphere) as wooden pegs sink into the ground to stabilize the corners of a tent. Such a process of stabilization cannot take place without the presence of a viscous, plastic material under the outer rocky cover of the Earth, into which the mountains "roots" can float. In as much as the ship casts its anchor into the anchorage of a port to avoid the dangers of rolling and swaying by winds and waves, the Glorious Quran uses the term "Rawasi" (=moorings or firm anchors) to describe mountains. Such firm anchors do not only stabilize the lithospheric plates, but also the whole planet in its spinning around its own axis (nutation, recession, etc.). [4] |
Rebuttal:
Again, this is Professor El Naggar’s opinion and a confusion of cause and effect. I await an Islamist to provide the scientific evidence derived by Professor El Naggar or anyone else to prove Mountains actually stabilize the lithospheric plates.
Actually, the scientific evidence is that the continental plates are stabilized by craton keels. These are deep (60-300km) extensions of cratons into the mantle (far deeper than mountain roots). The formation of these craton roots or keels are unrelated to mountain formation. (Jordan, T. H., Nature, 1978, 274, 544–548; Elasser, W. M., in The Application of Modern Physics to Earth and Planetary Interiors (ed. Runcorn, S. K.), Interscience, New York, 1969, pp. 223– 240; Morgan, W. J., J. Geophys. Res., 1968, 73, 1959–1970).
In fact, cratons are stable regions of the earth's crust that are no longer subject to mountain building processes. http://www.rexmining.com/rdmc/Linksandinfo/glossary.htm
These craton roots or keels were formed by depletion of basaltic elements into the asthenosphere, leading to less dense material that sinks deeper into the mantle due to the lower buoyancy (i.e. isostacy {of the crust, not mountains} at work). [Taken from Sankaran, A.V., CURRENT SCIENCE, VOL. 81, NO. 9, 10 NOVEMBER 2001 pp. 1158-1160]http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/nov102001/1158.pdf
E. Mountains prevent earthquakes.
Rebuttal:
As early as the 1920s, scientists noted that earthquakes are concentrated in very specific narrow zones (Wadati-Benioff zones). In 1954, French seismologist J.P. Rothé published this map showing the concentration of earthquakes along the zones indicated by dots and cross-hatched areas. Note how the earthquakes originate mainly from the edges of tectonic plates, including collisional mountain ranges and ocean trenches and ridges, thus suggesting that mountains do not stabilize the crust or the earth.
Further evidence is provided by a detailed look at the Himalayan mountain range which shows that it is closely associated with earthquakes, thus proving mountains do not prevent earthquakes.
| Quote: |
Why do earthquakes happen here?
The Indian subcontinent lies upon the Indian Plate. This plate is moving northward at about 5 centimetres per year and in doing so, collides with the Eurasian Plate. Upon the Eurasian Plate lie the Tibet plateau & central Asia. Due to this mammoth collision, the Himalayas are thrust higher and very many earthquakes are generated in the process. This is the cause of earthquakes from the Himalayas to the Arakan Yoma. The same process, though involving the Indian Plate and the Burmese Micro-plate results in earthquakes in the Andaman & Nicobar Islands. Sometimes earthquakes of different magnitudes occur within the Indian Plate, in the peninsula and in adjoining parts of the Arabian Sea or the Bay of Bengal. These arise due to localized systems of forces in the crust sometimes associated with ancient geological structures such as in the Rann of Kachchh. http://asc-india.org/menu/seismi.htm |
Therefore it seems the collision of tectonic plates causes mountains to form and this collision also causes earthquakes.
| Quote: |
| Strong and damaging earthquakes have been felt in all parts of the Indian Sub-continent. The most seismically active areas are those in the Himalayan regions of the sub-continent and in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands due to the peculiar tectonic nature of these regions. http://asc-india.org/menu/gquakes.htm |
Scientists have also proven that other mountain ranges to be earthquake zones, including the Andes and the African mountains
Does the Islamist claim that mountains prevent earthquakes stand up to scientific evidence? The answer is a resounding “NO”. In fact, the largest earthquakes, particularly the largest 2, ever recorded are associated with mountainous regions. http://asc-india.org/gq/world10.htm
No. 1: The great Chilean earthquake occurring 140 kms SSW of Concepción (Biobio), Chile, registered 9.5Mw – the largest earthquake ever recorded. The Andes mountain range did nothing to prevent or stabilize this earthquake.
No. 2: The Prince William Sound earthquake occurring 33.2 kms SE of Mt. Goode (Alaska), U.S.A., registered 9.2Mw - the second biggest earthquake recorded in the 20th century. Mt Goode didn't stabilize this earthquake.
No. 6: The Ecuador earthquake occurring 138 kms W of Tortuga (Esmeraldas Province), Ecuador, registered 8.8Mw. The nearby Andes mountain range did not prevent or stabilize this earthquake.
No. 8: The Arunachal Pradesh occurring 20.7 kilometers NW of Tajobum (Arunachal Pradesh), India registering 8.6Mw. This is in the Assam hills and 'caused landslides in the mountains.
Let’s examine the case of the largest earthquake ever recorded.
Chilean Earthquake of 1960
| Quote: |
Chile
1960 May 22 19:11:14 UTC
Magnitude 9.5
The Largest Earthquake in the World
More than 2,000 killed, 3,000 injured, 2,000,000 homeless, and $550 million damage in southern Chile; tsunami caused 61 deaths, $75 million damage in Hawaii; 138 deaths and $50 million damage in Japan; 32 dead and missing in the Philippines; and $500,000 damage to the west coast of the United States. |
The Andes Mountains didn't seem to prevent or stabilize this earthquake. In fact, it is the collision between the Nazca and South American tectonic plates that causes these earthquakes and raises the Andes mountains.
| Quote: |
| This is a convergent plate boundary, the plates move towards each other. The amount of crust on the surface of the earth remains relatively constant. Therefore, when plates diverge (separate) and form new crust in one area, the plates must converge (come together) in another area and be destroyed. An example of this is the Nazca plate being subducted under the South American plate to form the Andes Mountain Chain. |
Hence the Islamist proposition that mountains prevent earthquakes is patently false.
E. Mountains stabilize the earth through isostacy.
Rebuttal:
This is a classical misconception of George Airy’s model of Isostacy and the logical fallacy of “Composition” (i.e. generalization of the specific case to the general). Just because the mountains are themselves stabilized by isostacy does not mean that the mountains stabilize the earth or the crust by isostacy. Every element in the earth’s crust is governed by the same physical laws – in fact the crust ‘floats’ on the upper mantle and is thus self-stabilizing according to its own isostacy, not that of mountains.
| Quote: |
| Isostacy, which says that any vertical column of the earth above some deep level of "compensation" must have the same mass. This has to do with bouyancy forces and with the tendency of deep materials (the asthenosphere, for example) to flow in response to pressure differences. |
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1079354119.Es.r.html
Therefore, isostacy stabilizes mountains. Isostacy also stabilizes the earth's crust.
However, mountains do not stabilize the crust through isostacy. The crust stabilises itself through its own isostacy. Therefore, the stability of the crust, through 'crustal' isostacy, has nothing to do with mountains. It is the Islamists' foolishness and wishful thinking that makes them extend this 'mountain-specific' isostacy to the crust (which has its own isostacy) because isostacy is an independent 'force or phenomenon' acting on the mountains as it independently does on the crust.
F. The term ‘tameeda’ does not refer to earthquakes but to shaking or disturbances.
When shown evidence that collisional-type mountains are associated with earthquakes some Islamist will then claim that the Quranic verses do not refer to earthquakes at all. They will claim that tameeda also means stagger, roll, sway, or tilt, and that there's significant difference between them and the short sharp shock of an earthquake (i.e. tameeda refers to some phenomenon, assumed to be associated with geological timescale, that is presently unknown to and undefined by our present understanding of geological science).
Rebuttal:
The relevant verses are as follows:
| Quote: |
Sura Luqman 31:10 "He has created the heavens without supports that you can see, and has cast (alqa) onto the earth firm mountains (rawasiya) lest it should shake with you (tamida bikum **) ..."
In the Prophets (Al-Anibiya') 21:31 "And We have set on the earth firm mountains (rawasiya), lest it should shake with them (tamida bihim**)."
In the Bee (Al-Nahl) 16:15 "And He has cast onto the earth firm mountains (rawasiya) lest it should shake with you… (tamida bikum**) " |
The phrase "tamida bi" from mada, yamidu, is only used in the above three Quranic verses which are marked **. Hans Wehr's "Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic" gives the meaning of the verbal phrase "mada bi" as: to shake something violently. "Mada bi" is the very form used in these verses.
It is clear that the term ‘tameeda’ is associated with people (i.e. less it should shake with YOU). Thus, tameeda cannot possibly refer to shaking in a geological timescale as people do not live in geological timescales. For this reason I suggest tameeda and zalzala are synonyms, just as the English terms, seismic activity and earth tremors are synonyms for earthquakes.
Even some Islamists do not consider tameeda to mean shaking in geological timescale.
| Quote: |
(And We have placed on the earth firm mountains,) means, mountains which stabilize the earth and keep it steady and lend it weight, lest it should shake with the people, i.e., move and tremble so that they would not be able to stand firm on it -- because it is covered with water, apart from one-quarter of its surface. {Tafsir Ibn Kathir}
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=21&tid=32959 |
Admittedly Ibn Kathir was not a geologist, but he certainly knew Classical Arabic and his reading of the relevant verses suggests that tameeda is not associated with a geological timescale.
G. The word, ‘stabilize’ does not mean ‘prevent earthquakes.’
The stabilization is over a geological timescale because of the term ‘tameeda’ as opposed to ‘zalzala’.
Rebuttal:
For the same reason as F, the term ‘stabilize’ must mean ‘prevent earthquakes’ as tameeda cannot be associated with geological timescales.
CONCLUSION
This article refutes the Islamist claim that the Quran had foreshadowed the scientific knowledge about Mountains as Pegs stabilizing the crust or even the earth. There are two elements to this ‘Quranic Science’ claim:
A. Mountains are Pegs.
This is untrue as not all mountains have peg-like roots.
B. Mountains stabilize the crust or the earth.
This is unproven. There is no scientific evidence for this assertion, therefore the Quran cannot be validated by scientific evidence that does not exist. The mere fact of isostacy is NOT proof that mountains stabilize the crust or the earth. The mere fact that collision-type mountains are formed at the edges of tectonic plates is NOT proof that mountains stabilize the plates. The mere fact that mountains have deep roots is NOT proof that mountains stabilize anything.
Lastly, is the Quran really the first scripture to make the assertion that Mountains stabilize the earth? Well, some Christians don’t think so, and the Bible predates the Quran by at least 400 years.
| Quote: |
http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/genesis/genesis1_pillarsearth.htm
Genesis 1:9-13 DAY 3
Pillars of the Earth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bible also talks about the pillars of the earth. In Job 9 it says, "Who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars (ydwmu) tremble." The LXX says, "Who shakes the earth under heaven from its foundations and its pillars (stuloi) totter." In Psalm 75:3 it says, "The earth and all its inhabitants are melting away; I set firm its pillars (ydwmu)." The LXX says, "I have strengthened its pillars (stuloi)." In I Samuel 2:8 it says, "For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s and he had set the world upon them." The Hebrew word for pillar is yqxm. The root is qx meaning "to melt" (BDB 1980, 848). Therefore, yqxm means, "a molten like pillar." The only other place it occurs is in I Samuel 14:5 referring to a mountain. Probably the pillars of the earth are the same thing as the foundations of the earth which were mountains.
In Ugaritic we have seen that there are two mountains, trgzz and trmg that bind the earth. Gibson says that these twin mountains were founded in the earth-encircling ocean, and held up the firmament, and also marked the entrance to the underworld (1978, 66). The mountains are said to bind the earth. This may indicate that the mountains surrounded, and supported the earth as well as confine the netherworld. The mountains were seen as the foundations of the earth, and the support pillars for the heavens. The Hebrews probably held a very similar view as the verses above indicate, as well as later Hebrew writings. So the phrase "pillars of heaven" and "pillars of earth" are referring to the same mountains. One emphasizes the height of the mountains holding up heaven, the other emphasizes the depth of the mountains that hold the earth firm. |
References:
[1]The Qur’aan And Modern Science: Compatible Or Incompatible? Dr. Zakir Naik, Islamic Research Foundation http://www.ymofmd.com/books/qms.pdf
[2]http://answering-islam.org.uk/Campbell/s4c2a.html
[3]http://www.amse.net/The%20Geological%20Concept/Summary%20and%20Conclusion.htm
[4]Mountains as Stabilizers for the Earth. Dr. Zaghlool El-Naggar, PhD. 24/09/2002
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2002/09/article13-b.shtml _________________ What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.
Last edited by Hector on Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:59 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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EARTH MADE OF SEVEN LAYERS
INTRODUCTION
Islamists come up with some real doozies sometimes, including the claim that modern Science proves the Quran correct in asserting the earth is made of 7 layers.
| Quote: |
"Allah is He Who Created seven firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things In (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"
According to Noble Verse 65:12 above, Allah Almighty created 7 Heavens for form the universe. The new scientific discovery had revealed to us that the earth that we currently live on today is also formed from seven layers. The very bottom layer contains most of the uranium and potonium ("sic") and all the materials that we need to create nuclear weapons and energy. Noble Verse 65:12 above does indeed say that the earth was created with seven layers.
The Seven "Earths" refer to the layers that literally make up the Earth
1. crust
2. lithosphere
3. upper mantle
4. astenoshpere ("sic")
5. lower mantle
6. outer core
7. inner core
OR they could refer to the "7 Continents" (in the context that "al-ard" means ground)
1. North America
2. South America
3. Australia
4. Asia
5. Africa
6. Antarctica
7. Europe |
Note how the dishonest Islamist had tried to hedge his bets. It is now either seven layers or seven continents. I suggest the former explanation is correct as all translations I have read refer to earth and not ground. Nevertheless, although the number of continents is traditionally considered 7, some geographers and scientists think there are only 6 as Europe and Asia are technically a single land mass (i.e. Eurasia) and on the same tectonic plate. http://geography.about.com/library/misc/blcont.htm
Therefore, I suggest the traditional number of 7 continents is more a cultural bias than an actual geographical/geological fact.
There are Islamists who claim that Allah created 7 earths - but we only know of 1, our own, but no doubt future science will reveal the remaining 6. http://www.justread.20m.com/scientific%20truth.htm
If I'm not mistaken, this is another of the absurd pseudo-scientific claims of the champion of Quranic PseudoScience, Maurice Bucaille.
http://www.masmn.org/Books/Maurice_Bucaille/The_Bible_The_Quran_and_Science/043.htm
Some evidence of the Quranic 7 earths creation is also given in this link: http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/seven_earths.html
ANALYSIS
This article seeks to show the error of the Islamist claim that verse 65:12 shows the earth composed of 7 layers. I note the same dishonest approach taken to assign 7 layers of the atmosphere - i.e. the DOUBLE COUNTING OF LAYERS.
The general scientific view is that the earth is composed of 4 or 5 major layers depending on whether one splits the mantle or not.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/Interior_Structure/interior.html&edu=high
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/interior/
http://scign.jpl.nasa.gov/learn/plate1.htm
5 layers
1. crust
2. upper mantle
3. lower mantle
4. outer core
5. inner core
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/10h.html
http://www.palaeos.com/Earth/Geosphere/structure.htm
There are two ways to classify the composition of the geosphere - chemically, into crust, mantle, and core, or functionally, in the case of the outer layers (crust and mantle) into lithosphere and asthenosphere.
From the evidence above, one can see the Islamists' deceit because they double-count the lithosphere/asthenosphere while they also count the crust and upper mantle. Note that this is dishonest because these are alternative classifications. One cannot honestly count all lithosphere, asthenosphere, crust, and upper mantle together as one would be recounting the same rocks.
Recently new scientific hypotheses proposed by J. Marvin Herndon and Prof Xiaodong Song suggest the inner core may be further subdivided into four layers; the inner core, the innermost core, a sub-shell of fission material and decay products, and a subcore of uranium and plutonium forming the georeactor. If this new theory is accepted the number of layers of the earth rises to eight.
CONCLUSION
The scientific evidence do not support the Islamists' claim that the Quranic verse 65:12 foretold the scientific accuracy of the 7 layers of the earth when modern geology states that there are only 4 or 5 layers, or up to eight if the new hypotheses of the subcore georeactor are accepted.
References:
Deep-Earth reactor: Nuclear fission, helium, and the geomagnetic field
D. F. Hollenbach*, and J. M. Herndon PNAS 2001 vol. 98 no. 20 pp 11085-11090 http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/20/11085
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/scitips/02/0301earthcore.html
http://www.solstation.com/stars/earth.htm
Last edited by Hector on Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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QURAN AND THE LYING SINFUL PREFRONTAL CEREBRUM
INTRODUCTION
Several Islamists promulgate Professor Keith L. Moore's Quranic Pseudoscience of the lying sinful prefrontal area of the cerebrum (here referred to as the prefrontal cerebrum). The reader may want to check out the following site to follow a discussion as to whether the Quran actually mentions the prefrontal cerebrum or not as there is some doubt as to the meaning of the term naseyah.
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/It-is-truth/chap09.htm
Nevertheless, for the sake of debunking Keith Moore yet again, I will accept for the sake of argument that naseyah refers to the prefrontal cerebrum as Moore seems to suggest.
http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-d.htm
| Quote: |
D) The Quran on the Cerebrum:
God has said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad from praying at the Kaaba:
No! If he does not stop, We will take him by the naseyah (front of the head), a lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)! (Quran, 96:15-16)
Why did the Quran describe the front of the head as being lying and sinful? Why didn’t the Quran say that the person was lying and sinful? What is the relationship between the front of the head and lying and sinfulness?
If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum (see figure 12). What does physiology tell us about the function of this area? A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area, “The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex...”1 Also the book says, “In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression....”2
Figure 12: Functional regions of the left hemisphere of the cerebral cortex. The prefrontal area is located at the front of the cerebral cortex. (Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology, Seeley and others, p. 210.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)
So, this area of the cerebrum is responsible for planning, motivating, and initiating good and sinful behavior and is responsible for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. Thus, it is proper to describe the front of the head as lying and sinful when someone lies or commits a sin, as the Quran has said, “...A lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)!” |
Other web sites copy-pasting this proposition include:
http://www.beconvinced.com/science/QURANCEREBRUM.htm
http://www.crescentlife.com/thisthat/interesting%20stuff/quran_on_the_cerebrum.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/forehead.htm
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_52.html
A search of the internet reveals that ALL the Islamist claims that the cerebrum is responsible for lying and sin comes from the SAME source, i.e. from Keith Moore.
Dr Moore has defined the prefrontal cortex as the naseyah. However, his illustration highlights an area (colored tan) that is known as Brodman’s Areas 9, 10 and 11. It is this brain region that we will concentrate our analysis.
ANALYSIS
1. Islamist Non-Evidence
The Islamist 'so-called' evidence that the prefrontal cerebrum is responsible for lying and sin is thus:
| Quote: |
| A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area, “The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex...”1 Also the book says, “In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression....”2 |
A rational reader would see that planning and initiation of movement are not lying and sin. Though they may be required for its execution, they are not identical. Planning and initiation of movement can just as easily be required for truth and good deeds. In other words, movement control is not the process of lying which is a decision-making process and not a motor function. Thus, this line of thinking is false.
Secondly, aggression is not the same as lying and sin. One can just as easily lie and sin without aggression. Also one can be aggressive, as in self-defense, without being considered deceptive or sinful. Thus, the Islamist claim of evidence is clearly false.
2. Is the Prefrontal Cerebrum Really Responsible for Lying?
Modern science has investigated the brain processes required for lying and deception. This field has achieved great advancement from the invention (by kaffirs, naturally) of the Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging technology (fMRI). The key scientific teams include those led by Associate Professor Jia-Hong Gao; Professor Scott H. Faro, M.D; Assistant Professor Daniel Langleben; Dr Frank Andrew Kozel, M.D.; and Professor Stephen Kosslyn.
I choose only the issue of lying and not sin because much medical science has been conducted on lying. Sin is a broader issue and encompasses the subset of lying/deception.
The thesis is that if the Quran is wrong about the prefrontal cerebrum and lying, then there is no need to prove the more general case about the prefrontal cerebrum and sin as I would immediately prove the Quranic Pseudoscience a load of rubbish.
Here is a summary of the modern scientific findings:
A. Associate Professor Jia-Hong Gao, University of Texas Health Science Center.
http://www.uthscsa.edu/opa/issues/new35-16/fMRI.html
http://www.uthscsa.edu/opa/releases/nrel28Mar02.htm
http://hendrix.imm.dtu.dk/services/jerne/brede/WOBIB_37.html
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| The imaging data revealed four principle areas of brain activation — in the prefrontal and frontal, parietal, temporal and sub-cortical regions. |
Professor Gao’s experiment is a feigned memory test – which means that the brain areas involved in both feigning (i.e. lying) and memory will be activated. From his experiment, it can be seen that other parts of the cerebrum and the sub-cortical regions are responsible for lying, thus debunking the Islamist case that the prefrontal cerebrum is responsible for lying. The prefrontal cerebrum may only be partly responsible (i.e. for the memory component of the feigned memory experiment) and to assign it the prominent or sole role in lying is incorrect and/or deceptive. In fact, to be strictly correct, the decision-making processes for lying reside in the sub-cortical regions and not in the prefrontal region which is merely responsible for working memory functions, not the executive function of lying.
A detailed examination of the specific brain areas activated in the process of lying is provided by Lee et al., in “Lie Detection by Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging”, Human Brain Mapping 15:157–164(2002) http://www.hku.hk/fmri/index/journals/TanHBM2002a.pdf
In summary, the various functions of the brain areas in the lying process are as follows:
1. Prefrontal (BA 10, BA 9/46) - goal setting, cognitive-balancing and working memory functions.
2. Frontal (BA 6) - motor planning/decision processing.
3. Parietal (BA 40) - mental calculation of numerical problems.
4. Temporal (BA 21) – visual stimulation.
5. Sub-cortical {caudate and posterior cingulate} (BA 23) - inhibition of previously learned rules and self monitoring of random errors.
Lee et al. suggest the sub-cortical region is important in the decision-making process of lying, while the rest of the prefrontal-frontal-parietal-temporal-sub-cortical circuit mainly deals with the cognition and mechanics of the process.
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| Maguire et al. [1999] suggest that an important role for the posterior cingulate region is in the linking of incoming information with a repository of activated knowledge and thereby form a coherent representation of discourse. The conjoint activation of the anterior medial parietal/posterior cingulate region, therefore, reflects the online incorporation of information into a preset mental framework. |
Here Lee et al. suggest the role of the posterior cingulate region in formation of the coherent representation of discourse into the preset mental framework (i.e. lying).
| Quote: |
| Activation of the caudate region reflects performance monitoring, just as Semrud-Clikeman et al. [2000] observed that the intact structure of the caudate correlates with performance on measures of inhibition (of the usual, i.e. previously learned responses). |
Here Lee et al. suggest the role of the caudate cingulate region in the performance monitoring of the lying process.
Thus, the caudate and posterior cingulate regions together form and monitor the decision-making process of lying. These regions are in the sub-cortical area and not in the prefrontal cortex.
B. Professor Scott Faro, Functional Brain Imaging Center and Clinical MRI at Temple University School of Medicine in Philadelphia.
http://www.rsna.org/daily/monday/fmri.html
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002492.html
| Quote: |
| These areas (i.e. engaged in lying) were located in the frontal (medial inferior and pre-central), temporal (hippocampus and middle temporal), and limbic (anterior and posterior cingulate) lobes. During a truthful response, the fMRI showed activation in the frontal lobe (inferior and medial), temporal lobe (inferior) and cingulate gyrus. |
Here, Professor Faro's team found that the prefrontal cerebrum has no major part to do with lying. That the prefrontal cerebrum was not found to be involved is entirely due to the experimental design. Professor Faro’s experiment did not involve the use of memory, unlike Professor Gao’s feigned memory experiment. This is why Professor Faro found that the prefrontal cerebrum does not play a role in the neurological process of lying.
C. Frank Andrew Kozel, the Medical University of South Carolina and the Ralph H. Johnson Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Charleston, South Carolina.
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=3915
| Quote: |
| These areas (responsible for lying) included the right inferior frontal, right orbitofrontal, right middle frontal, left middle temporal and right anterior cingulated areas. |
Dr Kozel's team found more evidence that the prefrontal cerebrum is not responsible for lying. His experiment involved finding the brain areas activated when the subjects lied as opposed to when they told the truth. Thus, only the areas involved in lying were highlighted, removing the influence of other cognitive functions such as goal-setting, cognitive-branching, and working memory retrieval.
D. Assistant Professor Daniel Langleben, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.
http://www.upliftprogram.com/h_brain_02.html#h16
| Quote: |
| When the subjects were lying, the scientists found significantly increased activity in both the anterior cingulate cortex, a section of the brain that has been linked to monitoring of errors and attention, and the prefrontal and premotor cortices, areas involved in the initiation of voluntary movement. |
Here is more evidence that the prefrontal cerebrum is not responsible for lying. The prefrontal cortex is found to be responsible for the initiation of voluntary movement, not lying.
E. Professor Stephen Kosslyn. Pychology Dept. Harvard University.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/07/0705_wirelies.html
| Quote: |
Harvard psychology professor Kosslyn also focuses on the brain in his study of deception, but he uses brain-scanning equipment to see what areas receive intense blood flow during questioning.
While his work has not yet been completed, preliminary results show that different regions of the brain light up when people tell the truth or lie. Further, he believes different regions are activated depending on the type of lie.
His data so far, he said, show the anterior cingulate, located near the front of the brain and associated with conflict resolution, is often activated during lies. |
Admittedly Professor Kosslyn’s work is incomplete, but it does back up the work of others.
CONCLUSION
Modern medical research utilizing fMRI conduct brain scans has revealed that the prefrontal cerebrum is not responsible for lying.
Other brain regions are responsible, particularly the anterior cingulate gyrus which lies in the medial part of the brain in the frontal-parietal area and not in the prefrontal cerebrum (pictured above in grey).
The key evidence is provided by Lee et al., (i.e. Dr Gao’s team) who suggest that the sub-cortical regions are responsible for the main decision-making processes of lying, while the prefrontal region is mainly responsible for goal setting, cognitive-balancing, and memory retrieval and manipulation (i.e. part of the cognition and mechanics of the lying process).
Thus, the scientific evidence does not support the Islamist's pseudoscientific claim that the Quran correctly asserts that the prefrontal region is responsible for lying as it is not the region responsible for the decision-making process of lying. Other regions, for example the anterior cingulate gyrus, the parietal lobe, other regions of the frontal lobe, and sub-cortical regions (i.e. the caudate and posterior cingulate), are required for the brain processes of lying.
Last edited by Hector on Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:14 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:06 am Post subject: |
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CREATION OF HUMAN BEINGS FROM CLAY
Many Christians and Muslims use the recent scientific hypothesis of clay particles as catalysts for abiogensis as evidence of the veracity of their scriptures, for example:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_59.html
http://www.submission.org/quran/clay.html
http://www.answering-christianity.com/life_from_clay.htm
| Quote: |
Clay's matchmaking could have sparked life
19:00 23 October 2003
NewScientist.com news service
Philip Cohen
Two of the crucial components for the origin of life - genetic material and cell membranes - could have been introduced to one another by a lump of clay, new experiments have shown.
The study of montmorillonite clay, by Martin Hanczyc, Shelly Fujikawa and Jack Szostak at the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, revealed it can sharply accelerate the formation of membranous fluid-filled sacs.
These vesicles also grow and undergo a simple form of division, giving them the properties of primitive cells. Previous work has shown that the same simple mineral can help assemble the genetic material RNA from simpler chemicals. "Interestingly, the clay also gets internalised in the vesicles," says Leslie Orgel, an origin of life expert at the Salk Institute for Biological Sciences in San Diego, California. "So this work is quite nice in that it finds a connection between the mechanism that creates RNA and encloses it in a membrane."
Inherit, mutate, evolve
The genesis of genetic material and the emergence of cell structure are hot areas of research, but until now the two had not connected. The birth of genetic material was clearly crucial for life to take on its unique abilities to inherit, mutate and evolve.
And membranes were key to the physiology of cells because they protect their contents, concentrate chemicals to promote reactions and isolate successful genes from unsuccessful ones. "It's clear you really need both these elements to get evolution off the ground and running," says Szostak.
Research has already shown that some of building blocks for RNA-like molecules and membranes are spontaneously created by chemical reactions in outer space and in conditions that may have existed on the primordial Earth. But how these subunits were then assembled is still debated.
For RNA, one popular theory revolves around the unusual properties of montmorillonite clay. The negatively charged layers of its crystals create a sandwich of positive charge between them. This turns out to be a highly attractive environment for RNA subunits to concentrate and join together into long chains.
100-fold acceleration
Szostak wondered whether montmorillonite could also help the assembly of vesicles from simple fatty acid precursors. He remembers the day his colleagues Hanczyc and Fujikawa ran into his office to show him their first results: the clay caused a 100-fold acceleration of vesicle formation.
"It was pretty amazing," he says. Once formed, the vesicles often incorporated bit of clay and were able to grow by absorbing more fatty acid subunits.
His team also showed the clay could hold RNA and form vesicles at the same time. Fluorescently-labelled RNA attached to the clay ended up assembled into vesicles after the reaction. And the researchers were able to get these "protocells" to divide by forcing them through small holes. This caused them to split into smaller vesicles, with minimal loss of their contents.
Szostak admits that in a natural setting the vesicles would rarely be forced to divide in this way. So now his group is searching for different mixtures of membrane-forming molecules that might divide spontaneously when they reach a certain size.
Journal reference: Science (vol 302, p 618 ) |
The scientific hypothesis postulates that the clay merely 'match-makes' RNA and membrane vesicles - and therefore does not form a building block. This is contrary to the Abrahamic Faith postulate that human beings were created FROM clay, implying clay was a building block.
Notwithstanding this key distinction, are the Abrahamic Faiths the only religions who postulated the creation of human beings from clay? The answer is no. Many religions pre-dating (and some post-dating) the Abrahamic Faiths also carry this 'creation of human beings from clay' myth. The earliest are the pre-cursors of the Abrahamic Faiths - namely the early Mesopotamian religions.
Reference: Christopher B. Siren (1999) based on John C. Gibson's Canaanite Mythology and S. H. Hooke's Middle Eastern Mythology
rtfm.mit.edu at /pub/usenet/news.answers/assyrbabyl-faq
| Quote: |
Assyro-Babylonian
Aruru (Ninmah, Nintu, Ninhursaga, Belet-ili, Mami)
-She is the mother goddess and was responsible for the creation of man with the help of Enlil or Enki. She is also called the womb goddess, and midwife of the gods. On Ea's advice, she acted on his direction and mixed clay with the blood of the god Geshtu-e, in order to shape and birth seven men and seven women. These people would bear the workload of the Igigi. She also added to the creation of Gilgamesh, and, at Anu's command, made Enkidu in Anu's image by pinching off a piece of clay, throwing it into the wilderness, and birthing him there. Ea called her to offer her beloved Ninurta as the one who should hunt Anzu. She does so.
Canaan-Ugaritic
( Gibson p. 68 ) men are considered made of 'clay'.
Sumerian
According to Samuel Noah Kramer (Tablets of Sumer, Colorado,1956) Nammu and Ninmah, assisted by deities who are the 'good and princely fashioners', mixed clay which was 'over the abyss' and brought man into existence.
Gods were having difficulty in finding food, and their problems have increased when the later born goddesses joined them. Enki the water god - he was the god of wisdom and in a position to help them - was fast asleep in the sea and did not hear their complaints. Enki's mother Mother of all Gods Nammu brought the tears of the complainants to Enki and told him in their presence: "O! my son, get off your bed... do what is wise. Give shape to (make some) servants to gods. Let them make their own copies.(?)" Enki thinks, decides to head the 'union of good and bright modelists' and says to Nammu: 'O! mother, the creature you have mentioned exists: Put the image of gods(?) on him. Shape his heart from the clay on the surface of the Bottomless Deep. Good and bright modelists will thicken this clay. You make its organs; Ninmah (Goddess of Earth) will work in front of you. While you are making a model…goddesses of birth will be with you. O! mother decide on the faith of the newborn, let Ninmah put the image of gods on it: This is the human."
"Enki and Ninmah"
She is the mother goddess and, as Ninmah, assists in the creation of man. Enki, having been propted by Nammu to create servants for the gods, describes how Nammu and Ninmah will help fashion man from clay. Prior to getting to work, she and Enki drink overmuch at a feast. She then shapes six flawed versions of man from the heart of the clay over the Abzu, with Enki declaring their fates. Enki, in turn also creates a flawed man which is unable to eat. Ninmah appears to curse him for the failed effort. (Kramer 1963 pp. 149-151; Kramer 1961 pp. 69-72) |
Other faiths that postulate the 'creation of human beings from clay' myths include the ancient Egyptians, some African tribes and the Incas. Reference: Mythology: An Illustrated Encyclopedia. Ed. Richard Cavendish. Silverdale Books. 1992. ISBN 1-85605-794-1
| Quote: |
Ancient Egyptian
Khnum, the ram-headed god of Elephantine, the potter, fashioned men on his wheel, making use of the clay in his locality as his basic material. (p. 57)
African
The Shilluk, who live along the Nile in the Sudan, say that Juok (God) created men out of clay. He traveled north and found some white clay, out of which he fashioned Europeans. The Arabs were made of reddish-brown clay and the Africans from black earth. (p. 141)
Also: http://dickinsg.intrasun.tcnj.edu/diaspora/ileana.html
The Pangwe of Cameroun say that God first created a lizard out of clay which he placed in a pool to soak. He left it there for seven days, and then called ‘Man, come out’, and a man emerged instead of a lizard. (p. 141)
Inca
… the God Viracocha created the earth and the sky and peopled the earth with men. There was no sun and the people walked in darkness. But they disobeyed their Creator and he chose to destroy them, turning some into stone and drowning the rest in a flood which rose above the highest mountains in the world. The only survivors were a man and a woman who remained in a box and who, when the water subsided were carried by the wind to Tihuanaco, the chief abode of the Creator. There he raised up all the people and nations, making figures of clay and painting the clothes each nation was to wear. To each nation he gave a language, songs and the seeds they were to sow. Then he breathed life and soul into the clay and ordered each nation to pass under the earth and emerge in the place he directed. (p. 187) |
The ancient Greeks believed Prometheus and Athena created humans from mud.
http://edweb.sdsu.edu/people/bdodge/scaffold/GG/creationMan.html
| Quote: |
| Prometheus shaped man out of mud, and Athena breathed life into his clay figure. |
South Californian Amerindians also believe humans were created from clay.
http://www.saddleback.edu/ap/la/neh/juaneno.htm
| Quote: |
| Chinigchinich then formed man, both male and female, out of white clay found upon the borders of a lake. |
This reference shows that ‘creation of humans from clay’ myths are common throughout the world, including far-flung places like Australia and the Pacific Islands which were not in contact with the Abrahamic Faiths until recent times. http://www.creationism.org/flood/FrazerFolkloreOT_0.htm
Asia:
| Quote: |
Thus the Karens of Burma say that God "created man, and of what did he form him? He created man at first from the earth, and finished the work of creation. He created woman, and of what did he form her? He took a rib from the man and created the woman."
The aborigines of Minahassa, in the north of Celebes, say that two beings called Wailan Wangko and Wangi (created humans from earth). Said Wailan Wangko to Wangi, "Return and take earth and make two images, a man and a woman."
The Dyaks of Sakarran in British Borneo say that the first man was made by two large birds. At first they tried to make men out of trees, but in vain. Then they hewed them out of rocks, but the figures could not speak. Then they moulded a man out of damp earth and infused into his veins the red gum of the kumpang-tree. After that they called to him and he answered ; they cut him and blood flowed from his wounds, so they gave him the name of Tannah Kumpok or "moulded earth.
The supreme god of the Island of Nias, Luo Zaho, took a handful of earth as large as an egg, and fashioned out of it a figure like one of those figures of ancestors which the people of Nias construct. Having made it, he put it in the scales and weighed it; he weighed also the wind, and having weighed it, he put it on the lips of the figure which he had made ; so the figure spoke like a man or like a child, and God gave him the name of Sihai.
The Bila-an, a wild tribe of Mindanao, one of the Philippine Islands, relate the creation of man … (by) a certain being named Melu. He fashioned them accordingly in his own likeness out of the leavings of the scurf whereof he had moulded the earth, and these two were the first human beings.
The Bagobos, a pagan tribe of South-Eastern Mindanao, say that in the beginning a certain Diwata made the sea and the land, and planted trees of many sorts. Then he took two lumps of earth, shaped them like human figures, and spat on them; so they became man and woman.
The Kumis, who inhabit portions of Arakan and the Chittagong hill tracts in eastern India, told Captain Lewin the following story of the creation of man. God made the world and the trees and the creeping things first, and after that he made one man and one woman, forming their bodies of clay.
According to the Korkus, an aboriginal tribe of the Central Provinces of India: Thereupon the god (Mahadeo aka Shiva) repaired to the spot, and taking a handful of the red earth he fashioned out of it two images, in the likeness of a man and a woman.
A like tale is told, with a curious variation, by the Mundas, a primitive aboriginal tribe of Chota Nagpur. They say that the Sun-god, by name Singbonga, first fashioned two clay figures, one meant to represent a man and the other a woman.
(According to) the Santals of Bengal… Some say ' she (Malin Budhi) made them (humans) of a kind of froth which proceeded from a supernatural being who dwelt at the bottom of the sea, but others say she made them of a stiff clay. |
Australia:
| Quote: |
| Thus the Australian blacks in the neighborhood of Melbourne said that Pund-jel, the Creator, cut three large sheets of bark with his big knife. On one of these he placed some clay and worked it up with his knife into a proper consistence. He then laid a portion of the clay on one of the other pieces of bark and shaped it into a human form ; first he made the feet, then the legs, then the trunk, the arms, and the head. Thus he made a clay man on each of the two pieces of bark; and being well pleased with his handiwork, he danced round them for joy. Next he took stringy bark from the eucalyptus tree, made hair of it, and stuck it on the heads of his clay men. Then he looked at them again, was pleased with his work, and again danced round them for joy. He then lay down on them, blew his breath hard into their mouths, their noses, and their navels ; and presently they stirred, spoke, and rose up as full-grown men.1 |
Pacific Islands:
| Quote: |
The Maoris of New Zealand say that a certain god, variously named Tu, Tiki, and Tane, took red riverside clay, kneaded it with his own blood into a likeness or image of himself, with eyes, legs, arms, and all complete, in fact, an exact copy of the deity ; and having perfected the model, he animated it by breathing into its mouth and nostrils, whereupon the clay effigy at once came to life and sneezed. "Of all these things," said a Maori, in relating the story of man's creation, "the most important is the fact that the clay sneezed, forasmuch as that sign of the power of the gods remains with us even to this day in order that we may be reminded of the great work Tu accomplished on the altar of the Kauhanga-nui, and hence it is that when men sneeze the words of Tu are repeated by those who are present"; for they say, "Sneeze, O spirit of life." 1 So like himself was the man whom the Maori Creator Tiki fashioned that he called him Tiki-ahua, that is, Tiki's likeness.2
A very generally received tradition in Tahiti was that the first human pair was made by Taaroa, the chief god. They say that after he had formed the world he created man out of red earth, which was also the food of mankind until bread-fruit was produced. Further, some say that one day Taaroa called for the man by name, and when he came he made him fall asleep. As he slept, the Creator took out one of his bones (ivi) and made of it a woman, whom he gave to the man to be his wife, and the pair became the progenitors of mankind.
In Nui, or Netherland Island, one of the Ellice Islands, they say that the god Aulialia made models of a man and a woman out of earth, and when he raised them up they came to life. He called the man Tepapa and the woman Tetata.5 The Pelew Islanders relate that a brother and sister made men out of clay kneaded with the blood of various animals, and that the characters of these first men and of their descendants were determined by the characters of the animals whose blood had been mingled with the primordial clay.
According to a Melanesian legend, told in Mota, one of the Banks' Islands, the hero Qat moulded men of clay, the red clay from the marshy riverside at Vanua Lava.
The inhabitants of Noo-hoo-roa, in the Kei Islands, say that their ancestors were fashioned out of clay by the supreme god, Dooadlera, who breathed life into the clay figures.
The Marindineeze, a tribe who occupy the dreary, monotonous treeless flats on the southern coast of Dutch New Guinea, not far from the border of the British territory: They say that one day a crane or stork (dik) was busy picking fish out of the sea. He threw them on the beach, where the clay covered and killed them. So the fish were no longer anything but shapeless lumps of clay. They were cold and warmed themselves at a fire of bamboos. Every time that a little bamboo burst with a pop in the heat, the lumps of clay assumed more and more the shape of human beings. |
Europe:
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| The Cheremiss of Russia, a Finnish people, tell a story of the creation of man which recalls episodes in the Toradjan and Indian legends of the same event. They say that God moulded man's body of clay and then went up to heaven to fetch the soul, with which to animate it. |
The Americas:
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…the Eskimo of Point Barrow, in Alaska, tell of a time when there was no man in the land, till a certain spirit named á sê lu, who resided at Point Barrow, made a clay man, set him up on the shore to dry, breathed into him, and gave him life.1 Other Eskimo of Alaska relate how the Raven made the first woman out of clay, to be a companion to the first man ; he fastened water-grass to the back of the head to be hair, flapped his wings over the clay figure, and it arose, a beautiful young woman.2 The Acagchemem Indians of California said that a powerful being called Chinigchinich created man out of clay which he found on the banks of a lake ; male and female created he them, and the Indians of the present day are the descendants of the clay man and woman.3
The Maidu Indians of California the first man and woman were created by a mysterious personage named Earth-Initiate, who descended from the sky by a rope made of feathers. His body shone like the sun, but his face was hidden and never seen. One afternoon he took dark red earth, mixed it with water, and fashioned two figures, one of them a man and the other a woman.
The Diegueño Indians or, as they call themselves, the Kawakipais, who occupy the extreme south-western corner of the State of California, have a myth to explain how the world in its present form and the human race were created…. Tcaipakomat took a lump of light-colored clay, split it partly up, and made a man of it.
The Hopi or Moqui Indians of Arizon… Thereupon the eastern goddess took clay and moulded out of it first a woman and afterwards a man ; and the clay man and woman were brought to life just as the birds and beasts had been so before them.
The Pima Indians, another tribe of Arizona, allege that the Creator took clay into his hands, and mixing it with the sweat of his own body, kneaded the whole into a lump. Then he blew upon the lump till it began to live and move and became a man and a woman.2 A priest of the Natchez Indians in Louisiana told Du Pratz " that God had kneaded some clay, such as that which potters use, and had made it into a little man ; and that after examining it, and finding it well formed, he blew upon his work, and forthwith that little man had life, grew, acted, walked, and found himself a man perfectly well shaped."
The Michoacans of Mexico said that the great god Tucapacha first made man and woman out of clay.
The Lengua Indians of Paraguay believe that the Creator, in the shape of a beetle, inhabited a hole in the earth, and that he formed man and woman out of the clay which he threw up from his subterranean abode. |
It is apparent that folkloric tales about the creation of humans from clay/earth/mud is very common. So, does the modern Scientific hypothesis of the role of clay in abiogenesis prove the validity of the religions of the ancient Mesopotamians, the ancient Egyptians, the African peoples of Silluk and Pangwe, the Amerindians, the Karens of Burma, or the Incas?
Is Khnum the true god? Or Nammu, Viracocha, Juok, Chinigchinich or Pund-jel? Why do the Christians and Muslims believe Yahweh or Allah to be the true god as 'suggested' by the clay abiogenesis hypothesis? It could well be the ram-headed Elephantine god Khnum who really did create human beings from clay. |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:10 am Post subject: |
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MUSLIM GOLDEN AGE MEDICINE IS REALLY A COPY OF GREEK MEDICINE
This great article proves that Arabian Muslim Medicine in the supposed 'Golden Age' was basically a copy of the Greco-Roman Medicine, with some extensions. However, the foundations were definitely Greco-Roman with Persian and Indian influences.
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| “Arabian Medicine was really Greek medicine, modified by the dictates of religion, climate and racial characteristics, and rehabilitated in Arabic script” |
The evidence is that the text books of the Arabian physicians contained the same mistakes as in the Greco-Roman texts of Galen and Hippocrates.
Even Ibn Sina based his seminal work on the teachings of Hippocrates and Galen.
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| Abu Ali ibn Sina (937-1037), the ‘Prince of Physicians' was known in the West as Avicenna. He wrote the famous medical work al-Qanun fi'l - tibb ( The Canon of Medicine ), which is perhaps the most influential single work in the whole history of medicine, even including the works of Hippocrates and Galen 5 . The Canon was the definitive codification of all Greco-Arabic Medicine, and formed half of the medical curriculum of European Universities in the latter part of the fifteenth century 1 . In addition to organising existing knowledge, Avicenna brought many new observations of his own, including the discovery of meningitis, the manner of spread of epidemics and the contagious manner of spread of tuberculosis 5 . |
http://www.globalcomment.com/science&technology/print14.htm
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Arabian Medicine in the Middle Ages
The Arabian World's contribution to Science and Medicine
1. Introduction
In the gloom of the Dark Ages scientific studies suffered in Europe. Medicine was mainly performed by ‘the quack', barbers and keepers of baths. There was no formal education and the Church passed a number of edicts suppressing medical research and practice, which had up until this point found a safe haven in the Church. Of these edicts the most notable was the Draconian code which laid down restrictions and penalties attached to the practice of medicine.
However, while science was close to barbarism in the West, The Caliphs of Baghdad and Cordova fostered education among their subjects to the extent that in the latter city every boy and girl of twelve knew how to read and write, at a time when the barons and ladies of the Christian World were barely able to write their own names. The Hakims (doctors or ‘wise men') of the Muslim World mastered more than a thousand drugs, many of which were chemically produced. They induced anaesthesia by inhalation1 performed caesarean sections, tracheotomy and complicated eye surgery, operated on head fractures6 and performed dental surgery including the insertion of false teeth made from the bones of animals5. They gave vivid clinical descriptions of several diseases allowing for the diagnosis of an array of illnesses ranging from measles and smallpox to meningitis, hay fever and later of syphilis which was brought to the East by the Crusaders.
The distinct difference between Arabic and European cultures in the Middle Ages was made clear during the Crusades (1096-1272). The Arabians' belief in the invincibility of their armies was shattered by their defeat by Charles Martel and his Frankish knights at Poitiers in 732. But although the Westerners proved themselves to be military superior, the Muslims were far from impressed – ‘[the Crusaders] are animals, possessing the virtues of courage and fighting, but nothing else', as one of the Arabian writers at the time put it. The Arab physician Thabit, who was sent by the Saracen Emir to help the sick and wounded at the Frankish Castle of Munaytira in the Lebanon in the year 1143, was likewise unimpressed by the Westerners' skills. Although the French praised Thabit's skills and the speed with which he cured his patients, Thabits impressions of the French were of another kind. On his return to the Emir, he reported how he had cured a leg abscess by using a poultice. Whereupon a Frankish physician appeared and exclaimed that ‘this man knows nothing about treating them; which would you prefer, living with one leg or dying with two?' The patient said that he preferred the former alternative, and the Frankish doctor demanded a strong knight with a sharp axe, and told him to chop off the leg at one blow. Unfortunately, this he failed to do and ‘the marrow flowed freely and the patient died'. Thabit further remarked, ‘I return home having learned of their medicine what I knew not before'.
Not until the 12 th century did Latin translations of major Arabic works appear in Europe, with Arabian medicine achieving an almost mythical status among European physicians. Even today, the image of the Hakim, the Arabian physician-philosopher with his gold and silver brocaded turban and his halo of intellectual curiosity and broad tolerance, sparkles our imagination.
So how could the Arabian world be so much further ahead in science and medicine? And what skills did they actually possess? What is myth and what is reality?
Arabian medicine must be understood as synonymous with Arabic Medicine, as the language of the learned in the Islamic World was Arabic, much the same way as Latin was in the Christian world. It should not be understood to include Arabs only, as the Islamic World covered a vast geographical area, stretching from southern Spain to Bengal and it included both the Persians and the Nestorians in the East, and the Spanish and Jews in the west. Nearly all regions of the Islamic world made some contributions to the field of medicine.
Much interest was paid by medical historians to the history of Arabic Medicine following WW1. Thus, many sources are from this period. Because of the nature of the knowledge however, it would be unreasonable to say that they are outdated. In this article I rely heavily on three works, Campbell (1926), Nasr (1976) and Shanks & Al-Kalai (1984), but I will refer to other sources where necessary.
2. The foundations and development of Arabian Medicine
To a large extent, the success of the Arabian medicine can be credited their endorsement of Greek and Roman medicine at a time when this knowledge was lost to the West. The works of Hippocrates and Galen in particular formed the backbone of Arabian medicine in the Middle ages, and it is therefore worthwhile to have a closer look at these two early physicians.
Hippocrates (460-360 BC) who is often referred to as the ‘father of medicine' constructed a theoretical foundation for medicine that survived until the 16 th century. The most fundamental part of his theoretical model of the human physiology is idea that health and illness are results of the harmony or lack of such, of the four humours (yellow bile, black bile, phlegm and blood) and their respective qualities (choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic and sanguineous), the natures (hot, dry, humid and cold) and the four seasons. To modern medical practitioners his crisp clinical observations and diagnostic skills, and his description of relatively complicated treatments including surgical procedures, may appear more impressive. With the destruction of Corinth in 146 B.C. the Greco-Roman medicine migrated to Rome, and this lead to a period of stagnation in the West. However, progress continued in Alexandria, at the Alexandrian school of anatomy. One of the graduates from this school, Claudius Galen (AD 131-210) migrated to Rome where he became physician to the Emperor Commodious. He collected more or less all medical knowledge at the time, with a particular emphasis on anatomy. His works in particular would represent to the Arabian medicine a summary of the Greco-Roman medicine. His anatomical writings constituted the sole authority on the subject in Europe for fourteen centuries, until the time of Vesalius (1543), as the Arabians did not perform dissections.
With the collapse of the Western Roman Empire around 475 A.D., and with the repeated sacking and burning of the great library in Alexandria by Christian and Muslim armies alike, the works of Hippocrates and Galen were lost to the West. These works lived on in the East however, in Arabic translations, and formed the basis for Arabian medicine. Some see Arabian medicine as nothing but a reorganisation of Greek and Roman medicine: “Arabian Medicine was really Greek medicine, modified by the dictates of religion, climate and racial characteristics, and rehabilitated in Arabic script”. This may be a too simplistic picture, as there were strong influences also from India and the Far East, which most notably gave Arabian medicine most of its astrological lore. Several famous Indian professors of medicine were resident in Baghdad during the reign of the Caliph Harun al-Rashid (known to many from the ‘Arabian Nights'). A host of practical methods were acquired from the Jews 1. All this accumulated knowledge was built on top of the early foundations of Arabian folk medicine, which stated that “For every malady Allah has appointed an appropriate remedy.”
In 750 the Caliphate was moved from Damascus to Baghdad, and a new dynasty of rulers (the Abbasids) gave less attention to the military adventures than previous dynasties, and focused instead on learning, culture and intellectual life. This quickly made the court of Baghdad the most wealthy and tolerant in the world, and the Caliphs of Baghdad acquired a reputation as patrons of letters and science. This ‘Golden Age' was a period of broad tolerance and intellectual curiosity with the translation of many Greek works into Arabic (ca. 750-850). The rich intellectual life in the Islamic World at this time also led to independent research and new inventions, although this progress was somewhat impeded by the prohibition of dissection and the deep respect throughout the medical society for the authorities of Hippocrates and Galen in particular. Independent Arabic medical literature started to appear in the 9 th and reached its prime in the 11 th century 1. The Caliph al-Hakam II (961-76) introduced scientific and philosophical studies in the schools of Andalusia and the knowledge of medicine was widely diffused in the Moslem West.
3. The skills of the Hakim
What did the Arabic physicians contribute to the knowledge of medicine? And what skills did they possess? Internal medicine was the prime interest among the Arabian physicians, with ophthalmology as another major branch and with surgery playing only a secondary role.
3.1. Internal Medicine
The Arabian physicians in the Middle Ages possessed remarkable powers to diagnose a disease through external signs and symptoms. An extract from one of the famous Rhaze's pupils (c. 950 A.D.) shows the clinical detail that they possessed:
“Abdullah ibn Sawada used to suffer from attacks of mixed fever, sometimes quotidian, sometimes tertian, sometimes quartan, and sometimes recurring once in six days. These attacks were preceded by a slight rigor, and micturation was very frequent. I gave it as my opinion that either of these accesses of fever would turn into quartan, or else there was ulceration of the kidneys. Only a short while elapsed ere the patient passed pus in his urine. I thereupon informed him that these feverish attacks would not recur, and so it was. (Campbell, p. 69)”
The doctor searched for causes of a disruption of the harmony of the humours among the six external factors (the ‘Six Necessities'): Air (including climate, soil etc.), Food, Bodily rest and movement, Sleep, Emotional rest, Excretion and retention. Any of these were believed to influence the temperament. This meant that people living in one climate would have a different temperament than others. Food or even substances surrounding a man, such as wood, brick or metal, would influence his health, and thus both be potential explanations for disease and form the basis of a cure 5. Diagnosis was based on the six canons, the patient's actions, excreta, nature of pain, its site, swelling, and the effluvia of the body 1. The latter included inspection of the urine, and the Arabian doctors studied and described the function of the kidneys and various urological illnesses 8. However, they were especially aware of the digestive system and utilised a range of purgatives to re-establish digestive function. To a certain extent they also relied upon blood-letting. Performers of the Art of Medicine were able to distinguish a large number of diseases, some of which they had learned of from ancient medical sources, and others, like small-pox, meningitis, whooping cough and hay fever which they were the first to distinguish and describe correctly in the history of medicine 5. They described in detail the clinical manifestations of epilepsy, its basic mechanisms as understood at the time, aetiology, prognosis and dietary and hygienic rules, as well as a long list of pharmacological compounds for treating it. Their findings are very accurate and vivid, and many of them are accepted today 9. Several documents give detailed and precise clinical information on different types of headache, along with comprehensive list of substances used in the treatment of headaches. Rhazes (860-940) describes a type of unilateral headache highly comparable with basilar migraine:
“I visited a young girl who suffered from aphasia following a severe headache attack, washing her head with warm water, she spoke again. (Gorji & Ghadiri, p. 510)”
He also states that: “...the headache produced by encephalitis is too severe, extends to periorbital region and is associated with delusions and exophthalmos...” and that “... due to tumour or obstruction [of passages or cavities in the brain], the patient suffers from pulsating headache, confusion, visual hallucinations and tinnitus. 10 ”
Ophthalmology was a field that received special attention, in Egypt in particular due to the high prevalence of eye diseases here 5. Arabian physicians described the anatomy and physiology of the eye as well as both external and internal eye diseases 1. Many Latin terms in ophthalmology are of Arabic origin.
One person has to be mentioned especially with regard to internal medicine. Abu Ali ibn Sina (937-1037), the ‘Prince of Physicians' was known in the West as Avicenna. He wrote the famous medical work al-Qanun fi'l - tibb ( The Canon of Medicine ), which is perhaps the most influential single work in the whole history of medicine, even including the works of Hippocrates and Galen 5. The Canon was the definitive codification of all Greco-Arabic Medicine, and formed half of the medical curriculum of European Universities in the latter part of the fifteenth century 1. In addition to organising existing knowledge, Avicenna brought many new observations of his own, including the discovery of meningitis, the manner of spread of epidemics and the contagious manner of spread of tuberculosis 5.
Islamic medicine was more concerned with the prevention of illness than with its cure, and there is an emphasis on health and dietary habits in both the Koran, the Hadith and Shari 'ah 5. Western travellers through the Islamic world were struck with the general cleanliness of the people. Thus, elements such as diet and baths were important tools among the Hakim' s weapons against disease. Nevertheless, they also mastered an array of drugs, both naturally occurring and chemically modified. A number of chemical processes, such as distillation, sublimation, calcination and filtration were known and commonly practiced by Islamic scientists and were used in the preparation of chemical medicines 1. In addition, they introduced a large number of new medicaments as a result of their travels and investigations in many strange lands, having penetrated as far East as Borneo and China. These medical weapons included ambergris, cassia, cloves, mercury, myrrh, nutmeg, sienna and sandalwood. The compendium al-Hawi, written in the 9 th century mentions 829 drugs and their properties arranged alphabetically. The use of drugs was related both to the nature of the drug in question and the temperament of the patient. The aim was, as always, to re-establish the equilibrium of the humours 5. They also used several analgesics, such as opium poppy, cannabis, deadly nightshade and camphor 10.
3. 2. Surgery
Although Muslim physicians usually disapproved of surgery unless it was not absolutely necessary, they described many surgical operations, from caesarean section 2 to the surgical treatment of hydrocephalus and subdural effusions 6. Cauterisation was otherwise the preferred technique – not only for destroying infection around a wound, but also for specific problems such as haemorrhoids, amputation of limbs and the destruction of certain tumours 5.
Islamic Law prohibited the dissection of the human body. As a result, practically no dissections were carried out and Muslims relied heavily on Galenic anatomy and physiology and its theory of the circulation of the blood and the spirits 5. They even succeeded in increasing the errors of the originals by inaccurate translations 1. The anatomy of the time was primarily concerned with the description and enumeration of parts of the body, especially the bones, nerves and muscles. The nerves were in general the best described structures, while the anatomy of muscles was far from accurate. Much attention was paid to the relation between the organs, with some organs being ‘masters' and others ‘servile' (e.g. the heart being the master of the lungs) 5. Only when the great physician Ibn al-Nafis (who died in 1288) described in detail the minor circulation, and the relations and functions of the chambers of the heart, did the Arabian medicine depart from the Galenic anatomy and physiology 5,8. This discovery was made centuries before Servetus and Colombo who are commonly cited as William Harvey's predecessors in the modern description of the circulation. Indeed, Servetus, Colombo and other Western writers may have come across Ibn al-Nafis views through translations of Andrea Alpago 5. Ibn al-Nafis' student Ibn-al Quff was the first person to point out clearly the existence of capillaries, which were seen under a microscope for the first time by Malpighi in 1661. Arabian physicians were also the first to introduce systematically arranged illustrations in their medical writings 1.
The list of surgical procedures performed by the Arabian physicians in the Middle Ages is as varied as it is extensive. From the Greek, the Arabians early on acquired knowledge on how to surgically reduce an inguinal hernia. Old Arabian works describe how to press the intestines contained in the hernial sac into the abdominal cavity, with the surgeon then raising the peritoneum and, after tightening it at its base, cutting it off 11. Also, from Paulus Aeginata (625-690 A.D.) who practiced medicine in Alexandria, they had procedures for the treatment of conditions such as jaw fractures, gynaecomastia and hypospadias 12. The use of anaesthesia by inhalation was first proposed by Ali ibn Isa, also a famous ophthalmologist, in the late 10 th or early 11 th century 5..
Perhaps the most impressive figure among the early Arabian physicians when it comes to surgery was Albucasis (936-1013). Born of Spanish parents at El-Zahra near Cordova, he wrote several works, among which was an encyclopaedia of medicine and surgery entitled Altasrif. This work maintained a dominant position in medical Europe for five hundred years 1.
In his works, Albucasis describes methods of bowel reduction and abdominal wall closure. He was the first to sew the intestine with fine suture extracted from animals 2. Other parts of the Altasrif give detailed notes on the treatment of wounds with comments on suppuration, treatment of fractures and luxation (where he mentions paralysis following fracture of the spine) with illustrated descriptions on procedures on the eyes and nose, amputations and dental surgery. Impressively, he describes the treatment of renal calculus by lithotripsy and lithotomy. In obstetrics he describes the obstetric posture now known as ‘Walcher's position' and he mentions instrumental delivery in parturition 1. Within neurosurgery he was one of the earliest physicians to describe the diagnosis and treatment of an array of conditions, including head injuries and skull fractures, spinal injuries and dislocations, hydrocephalus and subdural effusion. He described neurosurgical instruments such as cranial drills that avoided puncture of the dura mater, and put a great emphasis on anatomy of the skull and brain in relation to the neurosurgical operations 6. He is even credited the very first performance of an endoscopic procedure. The first record of a mirror being used to reflect light into an internal organ is written by Albucasis, who used the device to inspect the cervix 13.
Later surgeons expanded the list of interventions, with Avicenna (937-1037) describing the first orotracheal intubation in dyspnoea 3. Tracheostomy was performed from the 12th century 1 and Al-Biruni (1307-1308) reveals in one of his works that caesarean section was probably performed on living wives of Muslim kings at his time 2.
4. The Organization of the Medical Profession
In the 9 th century the Arab physician Ali Ibn-Rabban wrote in his ‘ Paradise of Wisdom' that
“no one should live in any country which does not have four things: a just government, useful medicaments, flowing water and an educated physician (Shanks & Al-Kalai, p. 61).”
Legislation made it incumbent on physicians to visit persons regularly, to travel to outlying areas to treat the sick, and to provide a medical service to the army 7. The Caliph also appointed physicians to hospitals and paid their salaries. A Muhtasib, the modern-day equivalent of the Ombudsman protected citizens from unethical practices. Doctors needed to keep records of patients and practice – if they were found guilty of malpractice they could be prevented from further practice or even executed 7. The Ombudsman was also responsible for public health which included the prevention of lepers, denying those suffering from elephantiasis and other afflicted persons from using public baths, and supervising the collection of refuse, making sure that refuse collectors did not handle food while in the streets 7. In 931 the Caliph also introduced the idea of legal control of qualifying examinations for admission to the practice medicine 1, exams that were supervised by the Caliph's court physician 7. The actual teaching of medicine was done in medical schools, usually attached to hospitals where most of the clinical aspects as well as surgery and pharmacology were taught 5.
Already before the rise of Islam, a famous hospital at Jundishapur, near the present Persian city of Ahvaz, was a centre for medical knowledge, research and practice 5. The first real hospital in Islam was established by Harun al-Rashid in Baghdad during the 8th century, and a Christian physician from Jundishapur was called to head it. This Baghdad hospital became the pivot of medical activity and the centre for the rise of Islamic medicine 5. There were also major hospitals in Damascus, Aleppo and Cairo, and smaller hospitals in other Muslim cities. The most noteworthy hospital in Egypt was, however, the Mansuri hospital built in 1284, which had beds for several thousand patients. It was freely available to the whole population, regardless of social standing. The hospital was organised into different wards for various illnesses: One for fevers, one for dysentery, one for ophthalmic diseases and one for surgical cases. It also had separate cubicles for psychiatric illnesses. There were separate sections for men and women and the hospital included lecture halls, a pharmacy, a library, a mosque and administrative quarters 5,7. Hospitals in the Muslim World were supported partly by religious endowment, and partly by help from the Caliph or the local authority 5. The hospitals developed into various types, ranging from general hospitals catering for all kinds of diseases, to those specializing in the treatment only for lepers or the insane or even for animals 5.
5. A Shift from East to West
The Arabian culture began to fade, largely due to lack of military prowess, and when the Mongols destroyed Baghdad in 1258, the empire lay in ruins. What remained of the Islamic culture was only a shadow of what had preceded it. The philosophical and medical teachings of the Arabian World were, however, transmitted to the West where they deeply influenced the way medicine was taught.
Up until the 15 th century the principal authorities in Western medicine were the Arabian writers. Among these Avicenna and Rhazes were prominent, together with others such as Haly Abbas, Janus Damascenus and Averroes. The arabized versions of Galen formed an essential portion of the reading of medical men of the age 1. Avicenna and Rhazes were used in the teaching of medicine also in the 16 th century 14. Even though these Latin translations of Arabic works were so authoritative, they were teeming with errors due to poor translation 1. Technical terms appear to have been particularly difficult to the Western translators with the result that they often kept the Arabic form in their translations. Thus we still use terms such as alcohol, alchemy, zero, alchemy, elixir, cipher and azure.
Shanks & Al-Kalai (1984) and Campbell (1926) seem to agree that the historical importance of Arabian medicine lies primarily in its role as a vehicle for the preservation of Greek knowledge. Arabic scholarship gave the Latin West a taste for Greek culture at a time when intellectual Europe was in a state of degradation 7. Although this was an important result of the Arabian medical endeavour, it seems unfair on behalf of the Arabian physicians to limit their importance to this. The Hakims of the Muslim world developed skills and made discoveries that changed medicine forever – achievements that ranged from the first performance of a caesarean section or the induction of anaesthesia by inhalation, to the correct description of the minor circulation.
References
1. Campbell D. Arabian Medicine. And its Influence on the Middle Ages. London : Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co, Ltd, 1926.
2 Fallouji MA. History of surgery of the abdominal cavity. Arabic contributions. Int Surg 1993; 78 : 236-238.
3 Luckhaupt H, Brusis T. History of intubation. Laryngol Rhinol OtolK 1986: 65 : 506-510.
4 Brandt L, Goerig M. The history of tracheotomy. I. Anaesthesist 1986; 35 : 279-283.
5 Nasr SH. Islamic Science. An Illustrated Study. London : World of Islam Festival Publishing Company Ltd, 1976.
6 Al-Rodhan NR, Fox JL. Al-Zahrawi and Arabian neurosurgery, 936-1013 AD. Surg Neurol 1986; 26 : 92-95.
7 Shanks NJ, Al-Kalai D. Arabian Medicine in the Middle Ages. Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine 1985; 77 : 60-65
8 Eknoyan G. Arabic medicine and nephrology. Am J Nephrol 1994; 14 : 270-278.
9 Gorji A, Ghadiri MK. History of epilepsy in medieval Iranian medicine. Neurosci Biobehav Rev 2002; 25 : 455-461.
10 Gorji A, Ghadiri, MK. History of headache in medieval Persian medicine. The Lancet Neurology 2002; 1 : 510-515.
11 Lascaratos JG, Tsiamis C, Kostakis A. Surgery for Inguinal Hernia in Byzantine Times (A.D. 324-1453): First Scientific Descriptions. World J. Surg. 2003; 27 : 1165-1169
12 Gurunluoglu R, Gurunluoglu A. Paulus Aegineta, a seventh century encyclopedist and surgeon: His role in the history of plastic surgery. Plast Reconstr Surg 2002; 110 : 1600-1601.
• Polis SL. Endoscopic procedures: past, present and future. Todays OR Nurse 1993; 15 : 7-14.
• Provencal P. Dan Medichinhist Arborg 1997: 83-102.
Author: Bendik S. Winsvold : Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland Special Study Module, 4th Medical Year
© Bendik S. Winsvold 2005 from http://www.globalcomment.com website |
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