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Sources of the Qur'an: Saul, Gideon, David and Goliath
The Story of Talut
Saul, Gideon, David and Goliath
Jochen Katz
In Surat al-Baqara we find the Qur'anic version of the story of King Saul.
- 2:246
- Hast thou not turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children
of Israel after (the time of) Moses? They said to a prophet (that was)
among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we may fight in the cause of
Allah." He said: "Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight,
that that ye will not fight?" They said: "How could we refuse to fight
in the cause of Allah, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and
our families?" But when they were commanded to fight, they turned back,
except a small band among them. But Allah Has full knowledge of those
who do wrong.
- 2:247
- Their Prophet said to them: "Allah hath appointed Talut as king
over you." They said: "How can he exercise authority over us when we are
better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted,
with wealth in abundance?" He said: "Allah hath chosen him above you,
and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: Allah
granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah careth for all, and
He knoweth all things."
- 2:248
- And (further) their Prophet said to them: "A Sign of his authority
is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (an assurance)
therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family
of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol
for you if ye indeed have faith."
- 2:249
- When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: "Allah will test
you at the stream: if any drinks of its water, He goes not with my army:
Only those who taste not of it go with me: A mere sip out of the hand is
excused." But they all drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the
river,- He and the faithful ones with him,- they said: "This day We
cannot cope with Jalut and his forces." But those who were convinced
that they must meet Allah, said: "How oft, by Allah's will, Hath a small
force vanquished a big one? Allah is with those who steadfastly persevere."
- 2:250
- When they advanced to meet Jalut and his forces, they prayed:
"Our Lord! Pour out constancy on us and make our steps firm: Help us
against those that reject faith."
- 2:251
- By Allah's will they routed them; and Dawud slew Jalut; and
Allah gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed.
And did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, the earth
would indeed be full of mischief: But Allah is full of bounty to all the
worlds.
- 2:252
- These are the Signs of Allah: we rehearse them to thee in truth:
verily Thou art one of the messengers.
Ayahs 2:246-248 give an account of the appointment of Israel's first king,
and 249-251 report on preparation and result of his first battle.
Muslim translators usually write Saul, David and Goliath in their English
translations for the Arabic names Talut, Dawud and Jalut in the Qur'an.
And all commentators and encyclopedias of Islam (that I have seen) agree
that these are the correct identifications without indicating any diverging
opinion. Al-Baqarah 2:246-251 presents a story that is essentially an
exhortation to the Israelites to fight in the cause of Allah and
recounting their first battle and Allah's miraculous help to victory.
In comparison with the Bible we make the following observations:
- The prophet is Samuel and the first king of Israel is Saul (1 Samuel 10:1,24-25).
The author of the Qur'an does not name the prophet (a/their prophet:
2:246-248) (may we ask "Why?") nor correctly state the name of the
king. The prophet remains anonymous and the king is instead called
Talut in the Qur'an (2:247,249).
- The Israelites asked for a king because the new judges (Samuel's sons)
were evil; furthermore they wanted a king just like other nations
(1 Samuel 8:1-5).
In the Bible, the Israelites left Egypt by God's command and they
were even sent away with gifts (Exodus 11:1-2; 12:35-36). During Samuel's time,
"being forced from their homes" was no issue. The Qur'an states that
the Israelites asked for a king so that they may fight in the cause
of Allah, because they had been forced from their homes! (2:246)
- Samuel was displeased with this proposal, and asked the LORD what to do.
And God answers: Although this request means the people's rejection of Me
as their king, Samuel should do as they say after first setting before them
the disadvantages of having a king, like heavy taxes, drafting their sons
into his army and more as detailed in 1 Samuel 8:6-22).
In the Bible Samuel tries to dissuade the people from their desire for a
king. The Qur'an on the other hand presents Samuel asking them whether
they would fight for God if they were so commanded. Since this was their
original request(!), he only reinforces the wish of the people.
- Fighting was prescribed in the Qur'anic verses (2:244) and fighting
in Allah's cause leads to victory (2:251), but many failed to fight when
the time came and they are severely reprimanded for this by Allah (2:246).
According to the Qur'an the Israelites asked for a king so that they
could (start to) fight in the cause of Allah. But under the leadership of
Moses, Joshua and the Judges, they have already been fighting their enemies
for centuries, especially the Midianites and the Philistines, long before
they asked for a king! See the Torah, the book of Joshua and large parts of
the book of Judges as well as 1 Samuel 7,
the chapter just before their request for the king when the judge and
prophet Samuel lead them in the battle against the Philistines and
Israel is victorious.
- In 1 Samuel 10:17-27, we read how Saul is made king and we find that the majority
of people are very pleased to receive him as king (10:24). Only a very
small minority of a few trouble makers despised him (10:27).
In the Qur'an (2:247) it looks as if most (of the leaders) rejected
his authority and appointment as king.
- The Qur'an declares the return of the Ark to the Israelites to be the
sign of Allah's election of Saul as king. Indeed, the Ark was captured at
some time by the Philistines (1 Samuel 5), but the ark had
been returned (1 Samuel 6) long before Saul became king (1 Samuel 10). According to
1 Samuel 7:2,
the Ark had come back to Israel over 20 years before the events in chapter 7
happen, and only after that, Israel asks for a king (1 Samuel 8:1-5).
The Ark was continually in Israel's possession long before and all the time
throughout Saul's reign. This is the first detail of the historical
compressions in this account. This is a compression of about 20-30 years, in
addition to the false statement that the return of the Ark would be a sign
of Allah for Saul's authority.
- In regard to his (first) battle, the Qur'an claims that Saul
separated the fighters and picked only a few by the way they drank from
the river (2:249).
Nothing like this is mentioned in 1 Samuel 11-12, the report on Saul's
first battle, or even in the complete account of Saul's reign ranging over
chapters 9 - 31. Instead this story is found in Judges 7, where Gideon lead
the Israelites into battle. This is again a historical compression where the
author of the Qur'an confuses details of separate stories and weaves them
into one. In fact, Gideon's first battle against the Midianites where
this story of separating the men according to their drinking behavior is
taken from, took place about 1160 BC, while Saul's first battle was against
the Ammonites, and took place approximately 110 years later! Furthermore,
the Qur'an loses the whole point of the testing and separating of men,
when Talut supposedly tells his men the terms of the test before they drink.
As such it becomes an act of open disobedience instead of means of separating
out the soldiers chosen by God according to his secret knowledge as in
Judges 7:4-8.
- And there is even more historical compression is this
same story. The first battle of Saul did not involve Goliath and the
Philistines either. Instead they fought against the Ammonites (1 Samuel 11).
Goliath came on the scene much later when Saul had sinned against
God in blatant disobedience, was then rejected by God and replaced
by David. The Qur'an implied that David was serving with Saul at his
first battle! But the battle against Goliath and the Philistines was
about 1025 B.C., 25 years after Saul's first battle against the
Ammonites and after David was already secretely annointed the new
king (1 Samuel 16-17). One last small detail is that Muhammad mistook Jalut
for the Philistine military commander when speaking of "Jalut and his
forces". But a close reading of 1 Samuel 17 shows that Goliath was the best fighter of the Philistines
being called "their hero" or "their champion" but neither the king nor
a general in command of the Philistine army.
Observing all these differences, the obvious question is:
Why are these accounts so different?
There seems to be no theological reason for altering these many details
as there might be in regard to passages on the crucifixion (since the
Qur'an rejects the idea of atonement) or the various claims of Jesus to
be the unique Son of God and other doctrinally important texts. No such
theological motivation presented itself to Muhammad, nor is there any
reason why the Israelites should produce such an elaborate fraud over
many chapters and even books in order falsify their history.
What would be a reasonable explanation? What would a Muslim answer be?
My own conclusion is based not only on this text but several similar
ones and I think the following presents consistent and coherent
explanation.
Muhammad had heard many stories from the Jews, but as it regularly
happens with hearsay, one remembers some parts, other details are
forgotten, and one might confuse parts of separate stories. Muhammad
recites the story depending on his own memory and, more importantly,
to suit his purposes and current needs. The latter claim of deliberate
invention is obviously even more serious than the charge of forgetfulness.
Yet, there seems to be sufficient evidence for this conclusion.
According to Yusuf Ali's introduction to Surat al-Baqara, most of
this sura is an early Medinan sura. This means it was "revealed"
shortly after Muhammad and his Meccan followers had to flee from
Mecca to Medina, and had to leave behind their homes and families (2:246).
This is the first piece of information that does not at all fit in
Saul's time, but it perfectly fits in Muhammad's situation.
What is the motivation for this story about Talut?
The context of the passage in the Qur'an clearly states it.
- 2:243
- Didst thou not turn by vision to those who abandoned
their homes, though they were thousands (in number),
for fear of death? God said to them: "Die": Then He restored
them to life. For God is full of bounty to mankind,
but Most of them are ungrateful.
- 2:244
- Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah
Heareth and knoweth all things.
- 2:245
- Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan,
which God will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
It is God that giveth (you) want or plenty,
and to Him shall be your return.
- 2:246
- Hast thou not turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children
of Israel after (the time of) Moses? They said to a prophet (that was)
among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of
Allah." He said: "Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight,
that that ye will not fight?" They said: "How could we refuse to fight
in the cause of Allah, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and
our families?" But when they were commanded to fight, they turned back,
except a small band among them. But Allah Has full knowledge of those
who do wrong.
The motivation is very clear. Verses 243 and 244 set the topic of having
had to abandon homes and the consequence is the command to fight now in the
cause of Allah. In order to support this purpose, the story of Talut is
recited in a way that is tailor-made for the current situation of the Muslim
community. The truth of historical accuracy is not a major concern. The issue
is the call to fight for Allah (meaning: for Muhammad and the Muslim community).
Current reality is projected back into the old stories, and used to warn
the listeners that turning back and refusing to fight will incur the
displeasure of Allah (2:246 - "those who do wrong"), and to call for investment
not only of their life (fighting) but all they have (their possessions) into
this cause (2:245).
Why the inclusion of David and Gideon into the story?
This could be part of the motivation:
The Muslims were still few, and the enemies were many. One of the great
victories over a fearsome enemy was little David's slaying of the giant
Goliath. So this well known story got included into Muhammad's recitation
because he wanted to give his followers confidence for the upcoming battles.
The same dynamic holds for Gideon's case. It surely looked like a small
group of Muslims would have to fight a large Meccan army. This is similar to
Gideon who was called to fight with only 300 men against ten thousands of
the Midianites (Judges 7:12) and God deliberately downsized Gideon's army several times,
so that the victory is God's, not Gideon's (Judges 7:1-8). The number of fighters is not a
problem for God. This is a very motivational element.
Has Muhammad only confused the stories because he didn't remember all
the details he had heard from the Jews? That might be part of the reason
for the historical confusion and compression in these verses, and this
partial memory and confusion based on hearsay can be seen even clearer
in some other Qur'anic passages. One part pointing to memory problems
is the fact that the author of the Qur'an is seemingly not able to
name the prophet, and so he leaves him anonymous. But it was probably
not only a problem of Mohammed's memory - more likely the changes were
motivated in part by his desire to use the inspiring stories of courage
and God's miraculous intervention in the past to encourage and spur on
his small band of followers to obey him without questioning as the one
on whom Allah has put his authority (2:248). And indeed, that verse
is an exhortation challenging the listener with the question for
self-examination: "if ye indeed have faith".
In the 4th point above, it was already pointed out that it is historically
incorrect to claim that the Israelites supposedly wanted to begin fighting,
since they have been fighting their enemies under God's command already
for centuries. However, military action is new for the Muslim community
at this time. Muhammad was only their spiritual leader during the time in
Mecca. After the flight to Medina, Muhammad becomes their political leader
and chief commander of the Muslim armies. The beginning of fighting is the
historical situation for the Muslims, not the Israelites. Symbolically
speaking, Muhammad was a prophet before (like the the unnamed Samuel who
is seen in a spiritual leadership role only), but now he becomes like the
king Saul, who is a military commander. And just as Muhammad encounters
the resistence of his people who do not want to follow him for various
reasons - including that he is not among the most respected leaders, or
not wealthy enough, not a noble one - so he lets the enemies of Talut
speak out these accusations, and then let's Allah answers on his behalf
that these are not valid reasons and that he has chosen Talut in His own
superior knowledge (He knows all things) and His sovereign will (Allah
chooses whom he pleases).
Furthermore, the prayer of the Israelites in ayah 2:250 does not reflect
historical reality. The Philistines might have mocked the faith of the
children of Israel as part of their general war propaganda, but they
were not in a religious war. They just wanted to conquer and loot Israel
for the booty they could get. Nor was Israel fighting against the
Philistines because they were unbelievers, but because they were
attacking the land and cities of Israel and they had to defend themselves.
The recurring phrases of "fighting in the cause of Allah" and "help us
against those who reject faith" are distinctly Muslim phrases that
are projected back into the mouth of the Israelites. Muhammad was
waging a religious war against the Meccans who had rejected him and
the message he had preached to them for many years. Israel was only
defending against a military attacker to whom they had never preached
their faith.
In point 5 we noted, that Saul was not rejected by the majority of his
people, but celebrated as their king. There is no mention of open
opposition to Saul at all (even though this might have been justifiably
included in the light of the later development of his disobedience
and rejection by God himself. They could have said: See, I told you from
the beginning). But Muhammad was mostly rejected in Mecca and only a few
followed his message and recognized his authority over them. Again, it
is Muhammad's story that is narrated as if it were Talut's.
This is a further strange point: How come Talut has an army, even
a large army as it seems, if he is rejected by the people? Where
does this army come from? This is not coherent.
In point 7, we saw that Talut publically explains Allah's test to the
soldiers. This again makes the story incoherent in regard to the original
purpose of this test, but it is not about history, it is a sermon and
call to action in the present time of need for the Muslim community.
The issue is not the way people drink water, it is about being obedient.
The challenge of obedience to Allah through obedience to Muhammad is
placed before the listener. (And so the incoherence of the story makes
sense in the historical context of the sermon.) And we see this challenge
many times in the Qur'an when we read "Obey Allah and His messenger".
Muhammad very cleverly binds the allegience of the people to himself.
A last small observation: Why did Muhammad name Saul "Talut"? This is
seemingly the only name in the Qur'an for a Biblical figure which seems
to have no linguistic connection to its Biblical name. According to the
Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam it is most probably chosen for
poetic reasons to make his name rhyme with Jalut (Goliath, 2:249,250).
Maybe another reason is that Muhammad correctly remembered that Saul
was very tall (1 Samuel 10:21-24), and
hence he is called Talut under the influence of the Arabic word taala
(to be long/tall) as suggested in Paret's commentary on the Qur'an.
But this is not directly stated in the Qur'an, and thus must remain
speculative. The Qur'an does state that he had an impressive physique
(bodily prowess: 2:247).
Conclusion
The Qur'anic story of Talut exhibits many historical inaccuracies.
In particular we recognized the merging of several events that took
place decades or even more than a century apart. The motivation for
this version of the account is obviously the current situation of
the early Muslim community in Medina which was in need of being
encouraged for the upcoming battles.
Muhammad uses examples from "history" to inspire and encourage his
companions to follow him in these battles and that Allah would give
them victory just as he had given victory to the believers in earlier
times, when they were in similar situations. He is not, at this point,
concerned with historical accuracy and so, in order to make the account
more applicable to the current situation, he takes liberties with history
and produces a story which is conspicuously divergent from the historical
narrative in the Biblical account.
Muhammad's message appeals to the experience and circumstances
of his listeners, who were forced from their homes and families
for the sake of following Muhammad's message. That would indeed
be a reason for them to fight. But it has no foundation in the
history of the Israelites at the time of Samuel.
Through the Qur'an (presumably from Allah) Muhammad is asking
his followers (through the mouth of Samuel) if they would fight
for Allah if they were so commanded! This exactly was Muhammad's
call (2:244), and the current believers should follow the example
of the old believers... And the displeasure of Allah on those who
refused to fight (in the old story) is a warning to the current
the listeners that Allah certainly will be displeased if they
act likewise. This is Muhammad's way of indirect accusation
against those who would not want to fight without having to
confront them directly and personally. Honor and shame are very
important elements in Middle Eastern culture and that might be
one reason for using a story - since this allowed not having to
shame anyone by naming them directly for their resistance, but
nevertheless effectively communicating to them what Allah would
think of them depending on their action.
To this day story telling, parables, are very popular means in
the Middle East to communicate truth. Basically, Muhammad is
creating a parable to get his message across in this indirect
but nevertheless clear manner. The same method is used by the
prophet Nathan to convict king David of his sin (2 Samuel 12:1-10)
and Jesus tells many parables for the same reason, for example
see Matthew 21:33-45 where the intended meaning
is understood clearly by the audience. The problem is that
Muhammad has chosen a historical figure for his parable and
corrupted historical truth for his own ends. This is the
reason we cannot accept this passage as a revelation from God,
who is the truth, nor Muhammad as a true prophet. He has shown
himself as an effective communicator, a great leader and motivator,
but the standard to evaluate a prophet is whether he speaks truth,
not whether he can get a large following through his oratory and
people skills.
Muhammad recognizes that the bottom line is about truth.
And so he concludes this section with
- 2:252
- These are the Signs of Allah: We rehearse them to thee in truth:
verily thou art one of the messengers.
This is the ultimate purpose of this whole story. The listener is
again called to accept Muhammad as the messenger of God. But the
standard has to be truth. And according to his own standard of
truth pointed to in this verse, Muhammad has failed this test.
How then can we accept him as a true messenger of God?
I am indebted to this article on Saul
in the Comparative Index to Islam
for some of the details and for setting my research on this topic in motion.
The argument of this article is strengthened and greatly expanded by similar observations
in other stories of the Qur'an, cf. I am all the Prophets.
There are different ways in which Muslims try to deal with the problem.
Interestingly, even people from the same sectarian Muslim movement hold to
contradictory opinions.
Saqib Virk, who is (as far as I know) a member of the larger Qadiani group
of the Ahmadiyya sect (probably taking his opinion from the Quran commentary
of their group which I currently do not have access to), argues that this
story is only about Gideon, not about Saul:
"The Quran does not name Saul. It refers to Talut who many believe must have been Saul.
Personally, I believe Talut corresponds to Gideon."
(Source;
and arguing the same position in more detail in
this newsgroup posting.)
The Lahori branch of Ahmadiyya sect take the opposite view:
249a. “The story of Saul is here confounded with that of Gideon” says a Christian critic.
All that the Qur’an states is that Saul tried his forces by a river, and the Bible does not say
anything about it. On the other hand, the Bible speaks of a trial of a somewhat similar
nature by Gideon (Judges 7:1–6), while the Qur’an does not speak of Gideon at all.
The Qur’an does not undertake to give a full and detailed history of the Israelites, and no
Christian does, I think, hold the belief that the Bible gives a full and detailed record of
the whole of the Israelite nation, so that it could not have omitted a single incident. Nor is
there anything strange if Saul followed the example of Gideon. That these are two different
incidents is made clear by the fact that while Gideon tried his forces by “the well of Harod”
(Judges 7:1), Saul tried his forces by a river, as stated in the Qur’an. It further appears from
the Bible that the river Jordan was there: “Some of the Hebrews went over Jordan to the land
of Gad and Gilead” (1 Sam. 13:7).
249b. The Arabic word is Jalut, of the same measure as Talut, meaning
he assailed or assaulted in the battle (LL), and thus instead of Goliath
the Holy Qur’an has adopted a name which expresses his chief characteristic.
Source
The latter view is close to the opinion of the conservative Muslim commentator Maududi, which
is cited and discussed by James Arlandson.
Sources of the Qur'an
Historical Compressions in the Qur'an
Answering Islam Home Page