Sam Shamoun & Jochen Katz

In one of our papers (here), we mentioned that the Quran teaches that the sun sets in a muddy spring. In this article, we would like to expand upon our original point by including the commentaries of various Muslim scholars and also address certain Muslim responses which seek to deny that this is, in fact, what the Quran teaches.

Before we begin discussing this issue, we do need to make it clear that statements about the sun rising or setting do not, in and of themselves, prove that a person or author held to erroneous scientific views, or made a scientific error. One can legitimately argue that the person or author in question is using everyday speech, ordinary language, or what is called phenomenological language. From the vantage point of the person who is viewing the sun from the earth, the sun does indeed appear to be rising and setting. In fact, even today with all our advanced scientific knowledge we still refer to sunrise and sunset.

Hence, an ancient book or writer may have not intended to convey actual scientific phenomena when describing the sun as rising or setting any more than today’s meteorologists, or newscasters, are speaking scientifically when referring to the rising and setting of the sun.

With that said, we do feel that the author of the Quran wasn’t using phenomenological language when describing the sun. There are hints in the Quran that show that the author wasn’t simply speaking from the vantage point of one looking up at the sun from the earth, but did actually believe that the sun rises and sets. These hints are found in surah 18:86 and 90. It is to these passages which we now turn in order to demonstrate our case.

To begin with, not all translations say that the sun sets in a muddy spring. Certain translations of surah 18:86 speak of the sun setting in a black sea. Compare the following two translations:

Until when he reached THE PLACE WHERE THE SUN SET, he found IT GOING DOWN INTO a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit… Until when he reached the land of the rising of the sun, he found IT RISING on a people to whom We had given no shelter from It; Surah 18:86, 90 Shakir

Until, when he reached THE SETTING OF THE SUN, he found IT SET IN a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness"… Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found IT RISING on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. Yusuf Ali

Furthermore, according to Muslim sources there existed a variant reading where some recensions of the Quran spoke of the sun setting in a warm spring; more on this below.

Returning to the issue at hand, notice that the text does not say that the sun appeared to be setting in a black sea or what have you. The text clearly says the Zul-Qarnain found THE PLACE where the sun actually sets and rises.

Since the earth is a globe, and the sun millions of miles away from the earth (150 million kilometers on average over the year), the setting of the sun always appears to take place far away, somewhere on or behind the horizon. In phenomenological language it may still be acceptable to speak of "the place where the sun sets" when it is done from the view point of someone who is far away from this place. For example, a traveler could say that he was moving in direction of "where the sun is setting." However, the Quran goes beyond what is possible in phenomenological language when it states that Zul-Qarnain reached the place where the sun sets, i.e. the Quran is speaking of a human being who traveled to the place of the setting of the sun. Such a statement is wrong in any kind of language, since such a place does not exist on this earth. This is a serious error that was introduced into the Quran because the author mistook a legend to be literal and historical truth.

Interestingly, Ibn Ishaq, in his Sirat Rasulullah, recorded a poem composed by Tubba which said:

Dhu’l-Qarnayn before me was a Muslim
Conquered kings thronged his court,
East and west he ruled, yet he sought
Knowledge true from a learned sage.
HE SAW WHERE THE SUN SINKS FROM VIEW
IN A POOL OF MUD AND FETID SLIME.
Before him Bilqis my father’s sister
Rule them until the hoopoe came to her.)
(Alfred Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad [Oxford University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995], p. 12; capital emphasis ours)

Taken at face value, this poem is part of the evidence that Muhammad took over a legendary story known to the Arabs before the revelation of the Quran.

[Side remark: Note, however, that in what is classified as a pre-Islamic poem, the word Muslim is used. This either suggests that the poem was manufactured (made up by Muslims after Muhammad claimed prophethood), or that the term was already in use prior to Muhammad's time. If the latter, then this provides further evidence of Muhammad taking over ideas from the diverse religious groups of his time, erroneously assuming that these terms were divinely appointed or revealed. He then proceeded to use this term in relation to the biblical prophets, thinking that this is what they used or how they viewed themselves as well. See also: Zaid ibn Amr ibn Nufail's Cosmological Views and Their Influence on the Quran.]

This is not the only time where the Quran mentions the setting and rising of the sun:

And thus did We show Ibrahim the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and that he might be of those who are sure. So when the night over-shadowed him, he SAW a star; said he: Is this my Lord? So when it set, he said: I do not love the setting ones. Then when he SAW the moon rising, he said: Is this my Lord? So when it set, he said: If my Lord had not guided me I should certainly be of the erring people. Then when he SAW the sun RISING, he said: Is this my Lord? Is this the greatest? SO WHEN IT SET, he said: O my people! surely I am clear of what you set up (with Allah). Surely I have turned myself, being upright, wholly to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth, and I am not of the polytheists. S. 6:75-79 Shakir

Now one can legitimately argue that this text is referring to what Abraham saw, i.e. that from Abraham’s vantage point the sun, moon and stars appeared to him as if they were rising and setting. But this introduces two problems. First, if surah 18:86 is speaking of what Zul-Qarnain saw, that from his vantage point it appeared as if the sun was setting into a muddy spring, then why didn’t the passage say so? Why didn’t the passage say that Zul-Qarnain saw the sun setting into a spring and then saw it rising, much like the Quranic author stated in connection to Abraham? Doesn’t this prove that in the case of Zul-Qarnain, the author of the Quran intended to convey that the sun literally sets in a spring or sea of some kind, and then from there rises again?

Second, the Quran in many places states that the sun, moon and stars are traveling on set courses:

Have you not considered him (Namrud) who disputed with Ibrahim about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim said: My Lord is He who gives life and causes to die, he said: I give life and cause death. Ibrahim said: So surely Allah causes the sun TO RISE FROM THE EAST, then make it rise from the west; thus he who disbelieved was confounded; and Allah does not guide aright the unjust people. S. 2:258 Shakir

ALLAH is HE Who raised up the heavens without any pillars that you can see. Then HE settled HIMSELF on the Throne. And HE pressed the sun and the moon into your service; each planet pursues its course until an appointed term. HE regulates all affairs and HE clearly explains the Signs that you may have firm belief in the meeting with your Lord. S. 13:2 Sher Ali

And He has made subservient to you the sun and the moon pursuing their courses, and He has made subservient to you the night and the day. S. 14:33 Shakir

And thou couldst see the sun, AS IT ROSE, move away from their Cave on the right, AND WHEN IT SET, turn away from them on the left; and they were in a spacious hollow thereof. This is among the Signs of ALLAH. He whom ALLAH guides is alone rightly guided; but he whom HE leaves to go astray, for him thou wilt find no helper or guide. S. 18:17

Bear patiently then what they say, and glorify thy Lord with HIS praise before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and glorify HIM in the hours of the night and all parts of the day, that thou mayest find true happiness. S. 20:130 Sher Ali

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit. S. 21:33 Pickthall

And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. S. 36:38-40 Pickthall

He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? S. 39:5 Y. Ali

When we look at all these verses collectively, it becomes quite evident that the author of the Quran literally believed that the sun and the moon rose and set as they traveled on their ordained courses. Thus, it seems quite likely that the author of the Quran believed that Abraham wasn’t simply seeing something that wasn’t actually happening. The author seemed to believe that Abraham was literally seeing the actual traversing of the sun, moon and stars.

Therefore, the obvious understanding of surah 18:86 and 90 is that Zul-Qarnain discovered the actual setting and rising place of the sun, the very place where the sun literally sets and rises. Those who wish to argue that the text says otherwise do so because of an a priori assumption that the Quran is compatible with science.

The Commentators

The commentators were divided over the actual meaning of Surah 18:86 due to variations in the readings of certain Muslim transcribers. Some versions of the Quran state that the sun goes down into murky waters, while other versions read warm in place of murky. The variant readings provide further evidence that the Quran was not transmitted perfectly, without any variants or corruptions, dispelling the Muslim claims to the contrary.

Apart from the issue of variant readings, it is somewhat amusing to see how Muslims busied themselves over the question whether the sun set in a muddy spring or a warm one.

This discussion is, in fact, further evidence that the author of the Quran (or at least Muhammad and his companions) literally believed that the sun actually set in either a warm or muddy spring. After all, why would they have been concerned whether the text read muddy or warm if the verse was only conveying the thought that the sun seemed to be setting to Zul-Qarnain? In other words, it is completely irrelevant whether the spring which Zul-Qarnain saw the sun descending into was either muddy or warm, since this was supposed to be merely an appearance and not a reality since the sun doesn’t set anywhere.

Furthermore, as one reads the commentaries, one will find the commentators going out of their way to deny that the Quran literally teaches that the sun sets in a spring. We will have something to say about that in the next section when we address some of the modern Muslim responses to this issue.

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

(Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun) where the sun sets, (he found it setting in a muddy spring) a blackened, muddy and stinking spring; it is also said that this means: a hot spring, (and found a people thereabout) these people were disbelievers: (We said: O Dhu'l-Qarnayn!) We inspired him (Either punish) either kill them until they accept to believe that there is no deity except Allah (or show them kindness) or you pardon them and let them be. (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs, commentary on Sura 18:86; online source; bold emphasis ours)

Ibn Kathir

Allah’s saying, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun," means that Zul-Qarnain traveled on a path until he reached the furthest point West that a person can reach on earth, which is the western part of earth. As for reaching the place of the setting of the sun from the sky it is doubtful what the storytellers say that he (Zul-Qarnain) traveled the earth for a time while the sun was setting behind him. There is no truth in this and most of these myths are the invention of the People of the Book and their differing heretics who lie.

Allah’s saying, "He found it set in a spring of murky water," means that Zul-Qarnain saw the sun from his point of view descend into the ocean, which is the case of anyone who comes to the seashore and sees the sun as though it is descending in it, when in fact it does not actually leave the fourth orbit that it is fixed to.

The word "Hamiya" is derived from one of two pronunciations coming from the word "Hama’a" which is clay as Allah says, "I am creating people out of dirt and compact clay"   إِنِّي خَالِق بَشَرًا مِنْ صَلْصَال مِنْ حَمَإٍ مَسْنُون   which is smooth clay as has previously been shown. Ibn Jarir stated that it was narrated by Yunus, narrated by Ibn Wahb, narrated by Nafi’ Ibn Abu Na’im who heard Abdel Rahim Al’Araj say that Ibn Abbas used to speak about the muddy well and would pronounce the word as "Hama’a."

Nafi’ stated that Kab Al Ahbar was asked about it and he replied saying, "You are more learned in the Quran than I am, but I find it (the sun) in the Book (Torah) descending in black mud." It was similarly narrated by Ibn Abbas and Mujahid from others. Abu Dawud Al Tayalisi stated that it was narrated by Muhammad Ibn Dinar, narrated by Sa’ad Ibn Aws, Narrated by Misda’, narrated by Ibn Abbas, narrated by Abu Ibn Kab that the prophet –peace be upon him- made him read it as "Hami’a." Also, Ali Ibn Abu Talha narrated from Ibn Abbas that the sun DESCENDS in a "Hamiya" well, meaning warm water well. The same was also narrated by Al-Hassan Al Basri.

Ibn Jarir stated that the truth is that both pronunciations are correct and no matter which way a person may read it then, he is correct. I said that there is no contradiction between the two meanings, for it may be that the water in the well is warm because it faces the heat of the setting sun with no protection from its rays. The word "Hami’a" meaning water mixed with black clay is also possible as was narrated by Kab Al Ahbar and others. It was narrated by Jarir, narrated by Muhammad Ibn Al Mathny, narrated by Yazid Ibn Harun, narrated by Al-Awam, narrated by a servant of Abdullah Ibn Umar, narrated by Abdullah who stated that the prophet – peace be upon him – watched the sun while it was setting and said, "In Allah’s hot fire. If it wasn’t for Allah’s command, the sun would burn all those who are on earth." I said this was also narrated by imam Ahmad from Yazid Ibn Harun who elevated this hadith. It may be that this is the saying of Abdullah Ibn Umar and his companions whom he found during the battle of Yarmuk, and Allah knows best.

Ibn Abu Hatim stated that it was narrated by Hajjaj Ibn Hamza, narrated by Muhammad Ya’ny Ibn Bashir, narrated by Umar Ibn Maymun, narrated by Hadir Ibn Abbas who related that Mu’awiya Ibn Abu Sufyan read the verse in Surah of the Cave (Surah 18:86), "He found it set in a spring of murky water," and was told by Ibn Abbas that it was read and pronounced as "Hami’a." Mu’awiya then asked Abdullah Ibn Umar how he read it and was told, "We read it as you read it." Ibn Abbas told Mu’awiya, "That the Quranic verse was revealed in my house, so send for Kab Al-Ahbar." Ibn Abbas then asked Kab, "Where do you find the sun setting in the Torah?" He responded, "Ask the Arabian people for they are more learned about it. As for me, I find the sun setting in the Torah in water and mud," he then pointed towards the west.

Ibn Hadir stated to Ibn Abbas, "Had I been present earlier with you I would have informed you of something to enlighten you regarding the issue of what the warm well is." Ibn Abbas replied, "And what would that be?" He said, "Regarding what was mentioned of Zul-Qarnain following a path with knowledge, he traveled the earth both east and west seeking the reasons, being a command given by a wise guide. He then saw the sun at dusk DESCENDING IN A WELL that was ‘Khulb’ and ‘Thatin’ and ‘Harmad.’" Ibn Abbas asked, "What is Khulb?" He replied, "It is mud in their language." Ibn Abbas asked, "And what is Thatin?" He replied, "It is warmth." He was asked, "And what about Harmad?" He replied, "It means black." Ibn Abbas then asked for a male or a youth to be brought to him and said, "Write down what this man says."

Sa’id Ibn Jubair narrated that Ibn Abbas was reading Surah of the Cave (Surah 18:86) and read the verse, "He found it set in a spring of murky water (Hama’a)." Then Kab said, "I swear by Him who holds Kab’s soul in His hand, I have not heard anyone recite it the way it is revealed in the Torah other than Ibn Abbas. For we find it in the Torah descending in a black clod of mud." (Source; translation by Dimitrius)

Al-Jalalayn

"Until he reached the place of the setting of the sun,"- meaning WHERE THE SUN GOES DOWN.

"He found it set in a spring of murky water (Hama’a)"- Hama’a means a black mud and the sun’s setting in the spring is from the eye’s point of view, for the sun is larger than the earth. Zul-Qarnain found a tribe living around this spring, who were unbelievers. (Source; translation by Dimitrius)

Al-Tabari

The meaning of the Almighty’s saying, "Until he reached the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water," is as follows:

When the Almighty says, "Until he reached," He is addressing Zul-Qarnain. Concerning the verse, "the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water," the people differed on how to pronounce that verse. Some of the people of Madina and Basra read it as "Hami’a spring," meaning that the sun SETS IN A SPRING that contains mud. While a group of the people of Medina and the majority of the people of Kufa read it as, "Hamiya spring" meaning that the sun SETS IN A SPRING of warm water. The people of commentary have differed on the meaning of this depending on the way they read the verse. (Source; translation by Dimitrius)

Some Objections Considered

Certain Muslim propagandists, MENJ of the Bismiikaalahuma website and Hesham Azmy, have written a paper trying to refute the claim that the Quran teaches that the sun literally sets in a muddy spring (here).

The claims of Hesham Azmy and MENJ have already been soundly refuted. Christian Authors M. Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton have done a fine job of showing why the typical Muslim explanations fail to address the problems and issues raised by surah 18:86,90. The authors do a splendid job of also showing how the details provided in the Quran and the Muslim commentators about Zul-Qarnain and the sun setting in a muddy spring are taken from preexisting myths and legends about Alexander the Great. The readers can access their response here.

Here, we want to use the Muslim authors’ own sources against them. Since they appeal to exegetes like Ibn Kathir to support their premise that the Quran doesn’t speak of the sun literally setting in a muddy spring, we would like to show how these same scholars pose serious challenges to the Muslim authors’ beliefs that the Quran is compatible with scientific facts.

In order for the readers to follow along with our rebuttal we cite from Azmy’s and MENJ’s article where they quote certain Muslim scholars who uphold their interpretation. One scholar they cite, al-Qurtubi, wrote:

It is not meant by reaching the rising or setting of the sun that he reached its body and touched it because it runs in the sky around the earth without touching it and it is too great to enter any spring on earth. It is so much larger than earth. But it is meant that he reached the end of populated land east and west, so he found it - according to his vision - setting in a spring of a murky water like we watch it in smooth land as if it enters inside the land. That is why He said, "he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun." (Holy Qur'ân 18:90) and did not mean that it touches or adheres to them; but they are the first to rise on. Probably this spring is a part of the sea and the sun sets behind, with or at it, so the proposition takes the place of an adjective and God knows best. (Translation by Azmy and MENJ; Arabic source)

The authors also cite ar-Razi and Ibn Kathir (the latter was already cited above). For the sake of brevity we won’t quote Ibn Kathir’s comments again but ask that the readers scroll up and look over his comments above, as well as the comments of al-Jalalyn, and see where these gentlemen denied that the Quran, taken at face value, literally teaches that the sun sets in a spring.

As far as the denials of Ibn Kathir, al-Qurtubi, and ar-Razi, as well as al-Jalalayn, are concerned, i.e. they claim that the Quran should not be taken literally here, these are based not on what the text actually says. They are based, rather, on their awareness that the sun is much larger than the earth and is therefore incapable of setting within the earth. Thus, much like Muslims do today, these Muslim commentators, because of their belief in the Quran’s alleged infallibility, were reading back into the text their more advanced understanding of science in order to avoid the conclusion that the Quran is in obvious error.

Furthermore, there is a problem with appealing to the opinions of these men. Ibn Kathir and al-Qurtubi held to erroneous scientific views which they claim were based on the Quran and the traditions that allegedly originated from Muhammad and his companions. For instance, both Ibn Kathir and al-Qurtubi claimed that the earth was placed on the back of a huge whale, with mountains being used to keep the earth stable upon the whale’s back! See this article for more details: http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm.

In fact, Ibn Kathir, on the authority of Muhammad, also believed that the sun literally travels through the seven heavens until it reaches the throne of Allah. Once there, the sun prostrates itself and then returns back on its course. Commenting on surah 36:38, Ibn Kathir says:

There are two views over the meaning of the phrase ...

<on its fixed course for a term (appointed).> (The first view) is that it refers to its fixed course of location, which is beneath the Throne, BEYOND the earth in that direction. Wherever it goes, it is beneath the Throne, it and all of creation, because the Throne is the ROOF of creation and it is not a sphere as many astronomers claim. Rather it is A DOME SUPPORTED BY LEGS OR PILLARS, CARRIED BY THE ANGELS, and it is ABOVE the universe, ABOVE the heads of people. When the sun is at its zenith at noon, it is in its closest position to the Throne, and when it runs in its fourth orbit at the opposite point to its zenith, at midnight, it is in its furthest position from the Throne. At that point it prostrates and asks permission to rise, as mentioned in the Hadiths.

Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Dharr, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "I was with the Prophet in the Masjid at sunset, and he said: ...

((O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?)) I said, ‘Allah and His Messenger know best.’ He said: ...

((It goes and prostrates itself beneath the Throne, and that is what Allah says: <And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.>))

It was also reported that Abu Dharr, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "I asked the Messenger of Allah about the Ayah: ...

<And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term.>

He said: ...

((Its fixed course is beneath the Throne.))"

(The second view) is that this refers to when the sun's appointed time comes to an end, which will be on the Day of Resurrection, when its fixed course will be abolished, it will come to a halt and it will be rolled up. This world will come to an end, and that will be the end of its appointed time. This is the fixed course of its time ... (Tafsir Ibn Kathir Abridged, Volume 8 Surat Al-Ahzab, Verse 51 to the end of Surat Ad-Dukhan, abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, London, Lahore; September 2000, first edition], pp. 196-197; bold and capital emphasis ours)

Thus, if we combine the statements of the Quran along with the narrations of Muhammad reported by Ibn Kathir regarding the course of the sun, we are left with the conclusion that the sun travels on a course which includes setting in a muddy spring as well as going before Allah above the seven heavens. Allah has clearly ordained for the sun to come before him and to set in a muddy spring. For more details see the traditions of Al-Tabari below.

The preceding comments from Ibn Kathir should make it evident that when the Muslim authors realized that a statement of the Quran contradicted certain scientific views that were held to be true at that time, they were only too quick to explain it away. Yet, when the Quran spoke of things unknown to them from a scientific perspective, they were only too quick to affirm that those particular passages were speaking of actual scientific phenomena.

On the other hand, there are instances when these Muslim commentators will go against the scientific beliefs of the people of their era, obviously because those beliefs clearly contradicted the Quran. Yet, as modern science has advanced, further research has finally proven that the scientists of that time were closer to the truth than the Quran commentators, and it is now obvious that the Quran is in error.

This means that MENJ and Azmy are left in a very difficult situation. If the understanding and exegesis of commentators like Ibn Kathir are valid enough to show what the Quran means in passages such as surah 18:86, then they are also reliable enough to explain what it means when the Quran says that the sun travels and mountains act like pegs to keep the earth stable.

To appeal to these commentators selectively, only in some things that they deny, but not in what they affirm, can hardly be called intellectual integrity. The appendix will further examine these texts and the conclusions one has to draw from them.

The ‘space travel’ version

There is at least one classical commentator who explicitly introduces a different idea regarding the location of the spring into which the sun sets. It "solves" the problem that on this earth there does not exist any location where the sun sets – whether in a muddy spring or any other kind of place.

Muslim commentators may in fact be correct that the Quran does not teach that the sun literally sets in the earth. After all, the text of the Quran does not actually say that the sun sets in a spring or ocean that is located within the earth. Here, again, is the passage in question:

They will question thee concerning Dhool Karnain. Say: 'I will recite to you a mention of him. We established him in the land, and We gave him a way to everything; and he followed a way until, when he REACHED THE SETTING OF THE SUN, he found IT SETTING IN a muddy spring, and he found NEARBY a people. We said, 'O Dhool Karnain, either thou shalt chastise them, or thou shalt take towards them a way of kindness.' He said, 'As for the evildoer, him we shall chastise, then he shall be returned to his Lord and He shall chastise him with a horrible chastisement. But as for him who believes, and does righteousness, he shall receive as recompense the reward most fair, and we shall speak to him, of our command, easiness.' Then he followed a way until, when he reached the rising of the sun, he found it rising upon a people for whom We had not appointed ANY VEIL TO SHADE THEM FROM IT. S. 18:83-89 A.J. Arberry

Now please don’t misunderstand us, we are not denying that the text says that the sun literally sets in a spring or ocean. It clearly does. The real question is whether this ocean or spring is located within the earth. In order to better appreciate the point we are raising here, we quote from al-Tabari who cites traditions from Muhammad and his companions: