Response to Ahmed Eldin on the topic “ Does being called "Kyrios" really imply Deity?

 

By Quennel Gale

 

 

 

 

It seems like “answering Christianity”, the laughable pseudo-Islamic propagandist website, whose apologetics can be likened to the “National Enquirer” of scholarly debate, has added yet another ill-informed amateur known as Ahmed Eldin. Mr. Eldin seems to have the reading comprehension of a four year old and this response will show you just how laughable his article truly is. He begins by saying:

 

 

You can find his article here:

 http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_kurios.htm (read his article first and then mine).

 

 

To begin with, we must realize that the word “Kyrios” also has other meanings in the Greek language.

 

 

Source : http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

Also visit: http://www.whoisjesus.com/yhwh-LORD.html

 

 

Jesus is called “Lord” because is a respectful title for him. He is called “Lord” in the same way as Prophet Abraham called.

 

"Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord (Abraham) being old also?" Genesis 18:12

Also, like Esau:

"And he commanded them, saying, Thus shall ye speak unto my lord Esau; Thy servant Jacob saith thus, I have sojourned with Laban, and stayed there until now:" Genesis 32:4

Like Joseph:

"And we said unto my lord, We have a father, an old man, and a child of his old age, a little one; and his brother is dead, and he alone is left of his mother, and his father loveth him." Genesis 44:20

Like David: "And fell at his feet, and said, Upon me, my lord, [upon] me [let this] iniquity [be]: and let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak in thine audience, and hear the words of thine handmaid." 1 Samuel 25:24

 

Response:

 

Apparently Mr. Eldin fails to realize that even if you address someone as Lord “even a respectful manner” it is considered polytheism according to Islam and the Quran:

 

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. THEY IMITATE THE SAYING OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE OF OLD. ALLAH (HIMSELF) FIGHTETH AGAINST THEM. HOW PERVERSE ARE THEY! They HAVE TAKEN AS LORDS BESIDE ALLAH their rabbis and their monks AND THE MESSIAH son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)! Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse. He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to PREVAIL OVER ALL RELIGION, however much the idolaters may be averse. O ye who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (men) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom, On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which ye hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what ye used to hoard. S. 9:30-35

 

Mr. Eldin fails to realize that even the Quran acknowledges that Christians called Jesus “LORD” in a manner that equates him with God. The Quran itself says that to call Jesus Lord is to identify him as God, is to take him as God in place of Allah! The more he tries to explain the usage of “Kyrios” away the more he exposes his Quran as being a fraud!

 

What more can I say? The Greek translation of the Quran will clearly show you that the Muslim scripture will not allow anyone to use “Kyrios” even in this manner, as a title of respect, since it takes this to be shirk. Mr. Eldin apparently thinks that by posting verses in the Bible (note he is using context to denote the meaning, which is the first step in learning to accurately understand words and concepts) which shows others being addressed as “lord”, this would invalidate its use as a title of Deity for Jesus. However, Mr. Eldin forgets to look at the context closely to see that Esau, Joseph, David or any other individual are never referred to as LORD in the same context as God Almighty and Jesus.

 

He also thinks that he is refuting Shamoun believing that Sam only relied on the word “Kyrios” itself when Shamoun clearly said:

It isn’t merely the fact that Jesus is addressed as Kurios that leads Christians to believe he is Yahweh, BUT IN THE MANNER in which the NT writers use this Greek word for Christ that leads them to this conclusion. (http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_kurios.htm)

It is absolutely hilarious to try and make Shamoun adhere to a theory of “relying purely on Kyrios to prove that Jesus is God” when Shamoun himself rejected this theory. Shamoun stated that it is the way the NT uses “Kyrios” that demonstrates that Jesus is Yahweh!

 

To illustrate why this is quite serious and important for the truth claims of Islam imagine what would happen if a Muslim were to apply to himself a title or function which belongs to Allah alone; why, that Muslim would be put to death for shirk! How, then, can Jesus apply to himself the very Divine covenant name of God if he were merely a man without God condemning him? In fact, God raised him from the dead in vindication of Jesus’ Divine claims! Why would God raise Jesus as a supernatural verification of his claims if Jesus was lying?

 

Mr. Eldin has no answer whatsoever for what Shamoun presented which is why he had to resort to using the “Kyrios only” example above. He continues by saying:

 

Let us analyze now the strategy that Shamoun used in his article. Below you will understand that Shamoun very hardly quoted from the words of Jesus and he mainly quoted from the doctrine of Paul who corrupted the true religion that Jesus brought to humanity by the will of God.

For more information’s about Paul and Christianity visit: 

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus__words_only

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf (a must read)

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_
Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_

http://islamic-answers.com/christianity

Paul words are irrelevant; the only thing that matters is the words of Jesus and especially what he said about himself not what others believed about him.

 

Response:

 

Don’t you just love it when ignorant Muslims use the “Paul corrupted Christianity” argument and “We will only listen to Jesus”? Let’s therefore hang him with what Jesus said about Paul:

 

"As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?' 'Who are you, Lord?' Saul asked. 'I AM JESUS, WHOM YOU ARE PERSECUTING,' HE REPLIED. 'Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.' The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything. In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, 'Ananias!' 'Yes, Lord,' he answered. The Lord told him, 'Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. IN A VISION HE HAS SEEN A MAN NAMED ANANIAS COME AND PLACE HIS HANDS ON HIM TO RESTORE HIS SIGHT.' 'Lord,' Ananias answered, 'I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.' BUT THE LORD SAID TO ANANIAS, 'Go! THIS MAN IS MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT TO CARRY MY NAME before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.' Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, 'Brother Saul, the Lord - Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here - has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.' Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. Acts 9:3-20

 

Listening to the words of Jesus we see that:

 

1. He personally chose Paul.

2. Ananais was the second witness that Jesus himself spoke to which helps validate Paul.

3. Jesus used Paul to carry his name to the gentile world.

 

Hence, we see that Mr. Eldin is the one not paying attention to what Jesus actually says and claims. What’s even more amusing is that after his conversion, Paul spent days WITH JESUS’ ACTUAL DISCIPLES, AND AFTER MEETING WITH THEM BEGAN PREACHING his message to the world. It’s amazing that none of Jesus disciples or his followers accused Paul of any corruption of Jesus’ teachings and message. In fact Luke, the most descriptive and historically verifiable of the NT writers, says this:

 

"Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch WITH PAUL and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with OUR DEAR FRIENDS Barnabas and Paul - men WHO RISKED THEIR LIVES FOR THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell." Acts 15:22-29

 

Paul and Barnabas risked their lives for the message of the disciples and Jesus, and were called dear friends! In fact the disciples agreed that Paul should follow in his mission to the Gentiles, as Jesus had commanded him:

 

"James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, GAVE ME AND BARNABAS the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. THEY AGREED THAT WE SHOULD GO TO THE GENTILES, and they to the Jews. All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. Galatians 1:9-10

 

The position of Jesus’ disciples, who obviously knew him and his message, that Paul should go to the Gentiles perfectly agrees with what Luke records Jesus saying to Ananais regarding Paul’s mission:

 

BUT THE LORD SAID TO ANANIAS, 'Go! THIS MAN IS MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT TO CARRY MY NAME before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.' Acts 9:15

 

Peter, one of Jesus closest disciples, addresses Paul as a "dear brother" and classifies his writings as inspired Scripture, placing them on the same level of authority as the other divinely revealed Scriptures.

 

"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, JUST AS OUR DEAR BROTHER PAUL also wrote you with the WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16

 

The problem with Eldin’s statements is that his whole argument stems from his believing the presuppositions of some silly Arab prophet “who needed hooked on phonics” named Muhammad and his alleged claims of what Jesus said.

 

What makes this even worse for Eldin is that Jesus’ disciples were supposed to be Muslims according to the very Quran. Note here what his own pagan god, Allah, says in reference to Jesus and his message:

 

And behold! I INSPIRED THE DISCIPLES to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. THEY SAID, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah AS MUSLIMS'. S. 5:111

 

Here we have Muslims who were following in the faith of Allah, who believed Jesus, choosing Paul as one of the apostles because Jesus commanded them to do so! Amazing!

 

Moreover, not only do Mr. Eldin’s conspiracy theories about Paul fall flat to the ground, it gets much worse since early Islamic sources do not have anything bad to say about Paul, but plenty of good:

 

"God has sent me (Muhammad) to all men, so take a message from me, God have mercy on you. DO NOT HANG BACK FROM ME AS THE DISCIPLES HUNG BACK FROM JESUS SON OF MARY. They asked how they hung back and he said, 'He called them to a task SIMILAR TO THAT WHICH I HAVE CALLED YOU. Those who had to go a short journey were pleased and accepted. Those who had a long journey before them were displeased and refused to go, and Jesus complained of them to God. (T. From that very night) every one of them was able to speak the language of the people to whom he was sent.' (T. Jesus said, 'This is a thing that God has determined that you should do, so go.')

"Those whom Jesus son of Mary sent, BOTH DISCIPLES AND THOSE WHO CAME AFTER THEM, in the land were: Peter the disciple AND PAUL WITH HIM, (PAUL BELONGED TO THE FOLLOWERS AND WAS NOT A DISCIPLE) to Rome. Andrew and Matthew to the land of the cannibals; Thomas to the land of Babel, which is in the land of the east; Philip to Carthage and Africa; John to Ephesus the city of the young men of the cave; James to Jerusalem which is Aelia the city of the sanctuary; Bartholomew to Arabia which is the land of Hijaz; Simon to the land of Berbers; Judah who was not one of the disciples was put in place of Judas.'" (Ibid. p. 653; bold and capital emphasis ours)  

Other Muslim sources that affirm the preceding statement include:  

“Among the apostles and those disciples around them, whom Jesus sent out, there were Peter and his companion Paul.” (Thalabii, Qisas al-Anbiyaa, pp. 389-390)  

And,  

“Among the apostles, and the followers who came after them were the Apostle Peter and Paul who was a follower and not an apostle; they went to Rome. Andrew and Matthew were sent to the country whose people are man-eaters, a land of blacks, we think; Thomas was sent to Babylonia in the east, Philip to Qayrawan (and) Carthage, that is, North Africa. John went to Ephesus, the city of the youths of the cave, and James to Jerusalem, that is, Aelia. Bartholomew was sent to Arabia, namely, the Hijaz; Simeon to the land of the Berbers in Africa. Judas was not then an apostle, so his place was taken by Ariobus. He filled in for Judas Iscariot after the latter had perpetrated his deed.” (The History of al-Tabari - The Ancient Kingdoms, Vol. IV, trans. Moshe Perlmann [State University of New York Press, Albany 1987], p. 123; bold emphasis ours)  

The translator, Moshe Perlmann, comments on the above statement that Paul was not an apostle:  

317. In Islamic terms the messengers or apostles pave the new path. Their work is continued by the tabi'un, the followers, members of the next generations, who lead the Faithful. (Ibid.)  

Hence, according to al-Tabari Paul was a faithful follower of the Apostles, especially the Apostle Peter. In fact, al-Tabari lists Paul as one of those martyred for the faith:  

“Abu Ja'far says: They assert that after Tiberius, Palestine and other parts of Syria were ruled by Gaius, son of Tiberius, for four years. He was succeeded by another son, Claudius, for fourteen years, following which Nero ruled for fourteen years. He slew Peter and crucified Paul head down. For four months Botlaius [Vittelius] ruled thereafter. Then Vespasian, father of Titus whom he sent to Jerusalem, ruled for ten years. Three years after his rise to power, forty years after the ascension of Jesus, Vespasian sent Titus to Jerusalem. Titus destroyed it and slew numerous Israelites in his wrath over the fate of Christ…” (Ibid., p. 126; bold emphasis ours)  

The massacre still doesn’t end here! The Quran testifies that Christ’s true believers would prevail and remain dominant till the Day of Resurrection: 

Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, TO THE DAY OF RESURRECTION: Then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.” S. 3:55 

O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: as said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, “Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?” Said the Disciples, “We are Allah's helpers!” then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, AND THEY BECAME THE ONES THAT PREVAILED. S. 61:14 

According to these passages, Allah gave Christ’s followers the power to prevail over the disbelievers, and made them superior till the day of resurrection. Yet the ones that prevailed were Apostles such as Paul along with his followers. This means that if the Quran is correct then Paul’s message is the truth since it has dominated and prevailed over all other opposing messages. 

Yusuf Ali, in his translation The Holy Qur’an- Text and Commentary, p. 1543, footnote 5448, states:  

A portion of the Children of Israel - the ones that really cared for Truth - bbelieved in Jesus and followed his guidance. But the greater portion of them were hard-hearted, and remained in their beaten track of formalism and false racial pride. The majority seemed at first to have the upper hand when they thought they had crucified Jesus and killed his Message. But they were soon brought to their senses. Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus in A.D. 70 and the Jews have been scattered ever since. “The Wandering Jew” has become a bye-word in many literatures. On the other hand, those who followed Jesus PERMEATED the Roman Empire, brought many new races within their circle, and through the Roman Empire, Christianity became the predominant religion of the world until the advent of Islam… (bold and capital emphasis ours) 

What Ali failed to note is that the form of Christianity that permeated the Roman Empire is what Muslims degradingly call “Pauline” Christianity. Hence, that Paul’s message dominated is a sign that his Gospel was that which God had entrusted to Christ’s true followers. If it were argued that Paul’s version of Christianity is an aberration of the truth this would then imply that the Quran is wrong for claiming that God had caused Christ’s true followers to prevail and had made them superior UNTIL THE DAY OF RESURRECTION. This would also mean that Paul was able to thwart Allah’s purposes, and was able to undo what Allah claimed would be done. Interestingly, noted Muslim commentator Ibn Kathir was forced to contend with this fact:

 

“This is what happened. When Allah raised ‘Isa to heaven, his followers divided into sects and groups. Some of them believed in what Allah sent ‘Isa as, a servant of Allah, His Messenger, and the son of His female-servant.

 

However, some of them went to the extreme over ‘Isa, believing that he was the son of Allah. Some of them said that ‘Isa was Allah Himself, while others said that he was one of a Trinity. Allah mentioned these false creeds in the Qur’an and refuted them. The Christians remained like this until the third century CE, when a Greek king called, Constantine, became a Christian for the purpose of destroying Christianity. Constantine was either a philosopher, or he was just plain ignorant. Constantine changed the religion of ‘Isa by adding to it and deleting from it. He established the rituals of Christianity and the so-called Great Trust which is in fact the Great Treachery. He also allowed them to eat the meat of swine, changed the direction of the prayer that ‘Isa established to the east, built churches for ‘Isa, and added ten days to the fast as compensation for a sin that he committed, as claimed. So the religion of ‘Isa became the religion of Constantine, who built more than twelve thousand churches, temples and monasteries for the Christians as well as the city that bears his name, Constantinople (Istanbul). THROUGHOUT THIS TIME, the Christians had the upper hand and dominated the Jews. ALLAH AIDED THEM AGAINST THE JEWS BECAUSE THEY USED TO BE CLOSER TO THE TRUTH THAN THE JEWS, even though both groups were and still are disbelievers, may Allah’s curse descend on them.” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 2, Parts 3, 4, & 5 (Surat Al-Baqarah, Verse 253, to Surat An-Nisa, Verse 147), abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; First Edition: March 2000], p. 171; bold and capital emphasis ours) 

 

Ibn Kathir’s explanation doesn’t solve the problem since the Quran claims that the true followers of Christ would prevail and yet the Christianity that prevailed is the one that Ibn Kathir attacks as false. At the same time Ibn Kathir admits that this aberration is that which God caused to prevail!

 

Hence, much like Ibn Kathir, Eldin is in a dilemma that he cannot resolve since to accept the Quran is to accept Pauline Christianity!

 

What’s worse for Eldin is that Allah himself quotes Paul in the so-called sound hadiths of Islam:

 

Narrated Abu Huraira:

 

The Prophet said, "ALLAH SAID, 'I have prepared for My righteous slaves (such excellent things) as no eye has ever seen, nor an ear has ever heard nor a human heart can ever think of.'" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 589)

 

According to this hadith, Muhammad purportedly claims that Allah revealed the preceding quotation about the eternal rewards that his righteous servants shall receive. Compare what Allah is supposed to have revealed to Muhammad with what Paul says in his first letter to the Corinthians:

 

"However, as it is written: 'No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.'" 1 Corinthians 2:9

 

Paul is paraphrasing the following citation from Isaiah:

 

"Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides you, who acts on behalf of those who wait for him." Isaiah 64:4

 

Hence, according to the hadith the one who inspired Paul's saying, which Muhammad alludes to in virtually identical language, is none other than God! Notice that Allah didn't directly quote Isaiah but added Paul's words, "No mind has conceived" as "no heart can ever think of". This is referring to thinking which isn't present at all in Isaiah but later developed in Paul's own sayings!! Since Paul is considered a deceiver by Mr. Eldin, we must be forced to conclude that Jesus, Muhammad and his Allah are also deceivers! Muslims hate this quote since it undermines their thinking about Paul.

 

This basically means that Muslims have no basis to object to Paul's writings since Muhammad, Ibn Ishaq and al-Bukhari attribute Paul's work to God, clearly illustrating that Paul was a legitimate representative of Christ's teachings. It is obvious that Mr. Eldin doesn’t know Christianity or Islam and is very misinformed on these matters.

 

He wrote:

For instance, the Hebrew Scriptures teach that salvation comes from calling on the name of Yahweh:

"And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls." Joel 2:32

Yet according to the NT, believers are to call on the name of the Lord Jesus for salvation:

"Then he said: ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’" Acts 22:14-16

"That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, ‘Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.’ For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, ‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’" Romans 10:9-13

 

My response:

Shamoun quoted the words of Paul NOT the words of Jesus, but even in that way, Shamoun fails to realize that Lord also means Master or Sir in the Greek language. In addition, other individuals in the Old Testament are called Lord. So both quotations that Shamoun presented as evidence is not by Jesus but from others. At least if Shamoun wants to be honest, he must quote the words of Jesus and what he says concerning the meaning of the word “Lord” not by others.

 

Response:

 

Mr. Eldin is obviously a blithering fool. If you look at the Hebrew for Joel 2:32 you will find that “sir” or “Master” isn’t present but the divine name YHWH, translated in the English as “LORD”:

"And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls." Joel 2:32

VHYH KL 'aShUr-YQUr'a BShM YHVH YMLT KY BHUr-TShYVN VBYUrVShLM ThHYH PhLYTH K'aShUr 'aMUr YHVH VBShUrYDYM 'aShUr YHVH QUr'a. Joel 2:32 Hebrew Transliteration

 

American Standard Version
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as Jehovah hath said, and among the remnant those whom Jehovah doth call. Joel 2:32

 

Darby's English Translation
And it shall be that whosoever shall call upon the name of Jehovah shall be saved: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as Jehovah hath said, and for the residue whom Jehovah shall call. Joel 2:32

 

World English Bible
It will happen that whoever will call on the name of Yahweh shall be saved; For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, As Yahweh has said, And among the remnant, those whom Yahweh calls. Joel 2:32

 

Young's Literal Translation
And it hath come to pass, Every one who calleth in the name of Jehovah is delivered, For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there is an escape, As Jehovah hath said, And among the remnants whom Jehovah is calling! Joel 2:32

 

I think Shamoun knows pretty well that “Lord” means master. However it is God’s very name that is being mentioned, not “master” or “sir”. Notice that Joel is saying that you must call upon the name of YHWH to be saved, or in other words, if you call upon someone’s name for salvation in the Bible you are literally making him/her/it God since he is the only one who can save people from their sins!

Then they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer. Psalms 78:35

For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, YOUR SAVIOR; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. Isaiah 43:4

Doubtless You are our Father, Though Abraham was ignorant of us, And Israel does not acknowledge us. You, O LORD, are our Father; Our Redeemer from Everlasting is Your name. Isaiah 63:16

"Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits-WHO FORGIVES ALL YOUR SINS and heals all your diseases," Psalm 103:2-3

"O Israel, put your hope in the LORD, for with the LORD is unfailing love and with him is full redemption. HE HIMSELF FROM ALL THEIR SINS." Psalm 130:7-8.

 

The above verses clearly say that God himself will come and save the people of Israel from their sins. However the angel Gabriel says this to Joseph:

 

But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for HE WILL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS." So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." Matthew 1:20-23

Not only do we find out that Jesus was to be the name of this child who is equated with God, since he does what the OT says God alone can do, but it was Gabriel, not Joseph, who interpreted the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 as a reference to Jesus, calling him THE VERY GOD TO WHOM PEOPLE WERE TO CALL ON FOR SALVATION!

 

Hence, when the NT writers use “Kyrios” in the context of Jesus bringing salvation, and then apply an OT text, specifically Joel 2:32 which refers to calling upon Yahweh for salvation, to Christ such as in the following:

"That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, ‘Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.’ For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, ‘Everyone WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’" Romans 10:9-13

It is clear that these inspired authors meant to use “Kyrios” as a synonym for YHWH. Mr. Eldin can’t find a single example in the entire Bible where believers are told to call upon someone other than God or Jesus as Kyrios in order to be saved.

 

And since we already demonstrated from the words of Jesus, his disciples, and even from the Islamic source material that Paul was a divinely commissioned spokesperson we therefore challenge Mr. Eldin to show us one statement from his false god Allah or his false prophet Muhammad agreeing with him that “Paul was wrong or a deceiver”. Good luck buddy!

 

Side note: Since Mr. Eldin is so stuck on trying to equate “Kyrios” to “sir” or master” all the time let’s show him this in relation to the above:

For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, YOUR SAVIOR; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. Isaiah 43:4

Is. 43:3, 11-15 LI'ANNI ANA YAHWAH ILAHUKA QUDDUWSU ISRA'ILA MUKHALLISUKA. JA3ALTU MISRA FIDYATAKA KUWSHA WASABAN 3IWADHAKA. ANA ANA YAHWAH WA LAYSA GHAYRI MUKHALLISUN. ANA AKHBARTU WA KHALLASTU WA A3LAMTU WA LAYSA BAYNAKUM GHARIBUN WA INTUM SHUHUWDI WA ANA ALILAAHU, YAQUWLU YAHWAH. AYDAN MINA ALYAWMI ANA HUWA WA LA MUNQIDUN MIN YADI, AF3ALU WA MAN YARUDDU. HAKADA YAQUWLU YAHWAH FADIYKUM QUDDUWSU ISRAILA... ANA YAHWAH QUDDUWSUKUM KHALIQU ISRAILA MALIKUKUM

 

For I [am] Jehovah thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee...11 I, I [am] Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour.
12 It is I that have declared, and have saved, and have shewed, when there was no strange [god] among you; and ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, that I [am] God.
13 Yea, since the day was, I [am] HE, and there is none that delivereth out of my hand: I will work, and who shall hinder it?
14 Thus saith Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought all of them down as fugitives, even the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
15 I [am] Jehovah, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.

 

If Allah was the God of Israel then the Arabic Bible clearly would've said this:

 

Is. 43:3, 11-15 LI'ANNI ANA ALLAH ILAHUKA QUDDUWSU ISRA'ILA MUKHALLISUKA. JA3ALTU MISRA FIDYATAKA KUWSHA WASABAN 3IWADHAKA. ANA ANA ALLAH WA LAYSA GHAYRI MUKHALLISUN. ANA AKHBARTU WA KHALLASTU WA A3LAMTU WA LAYSA BAYNAKUM GHARIBUN WA INTUM SHUHUWDI WA ANA ALILAAHU, YAQUWLU ALLAH. AYDAN MINA ALYAWMI ANA HUWA WA LA MUNQIDUN MIN YADI, AF3ALU WA MAN YARUDDU. HAKADA YAQUWLU ALLAH FADIYKUM QUDDUWSU ISRAILA... ANA ALLAH QUDDUWSUKUM KHALIQU ISRAILA MALIKUKUML

 

There is only one God, YHWH. And since there is only one God whose name is YHWH there can be no Allah. Furthermore, since you can only “call on the name of YHWH” to be saved any being or entity who claims that you must call on their name for salvation is clearly saying that s/he/it is YHWH God.

 

He wrote:

NT Christians even prayed to Jesus the same way OT believers prayed to Yahweh:

"Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there he called upon the name of the LORD, the Eternal God." Genesis 21:33 – 12:8

"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth." Psalm 31:5

"Moses and Aaron were among his priests, Samuel was among those who called on his name; they called on the LORD and he answered them." Psalm 99:6

"While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ Then he fell on his knees and cried out, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them.’ When he had said this, he fell asleep." Acts 7:59-60

"To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:" 1 Corinthians 1:2

 

My Response:

It seems that Shamoun didn’t read the following passages from the Bible:

"Going a little farther, he [Jesus] fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:39)" 

he fell with his face to the ground and prayed....(From the NIV Bible, Matthew 16:39)"

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.  (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 6:5-8)"

One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.  (From the NIV Bible, Luke 6:12)"

This is what I mean when I say the words of Jesus are really maters for an evaluation and not the false words of Paul and others. Clearly as you see above Jesus taught to pray and call the Father not to pray to Jesus. So to whom you will call or pray? To Jesus as Paul said or to the Father the true God as Jesus said. Jesus prayed to God simply because he recognized him as the true God.

 John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Response:

Mr. Eldin did nothing to address the fact that people of the NT prayed to Jesus in the very exact way people prayed to God in the OT. Instead Mr. Eldin assumes that just because Jesus asks men to pray to the Father, this somehow refutes his claim to Deity or denies that we can also direct our prayers to Christ. Apparently Eldin is ignorant of the fact that Jesus gave his followers the following instructions:

 

“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” John 14:13-14

 

“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.” John 15:16

 

“And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full… At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you.” John 16:23-24, 26

 

You will notice that in all of these passages Jesus tells His disciples to pray to the Father in His (Jesus’) name. We know that the way we talk to God is through prayer. However in order to pray to the Father it must be done in Jesus’ name WITH JESUS ANSWERING THE PRAYER! 

 

In 14:13-14 Jesus expressly says that he will do whatever they ASK HIM DIRECTLY IN PRAYER and yet 15:16 says that “the Father will do it”. Hence we have both God the Father and the Lord Jesus answering prayers. If Jesus strictly told men to pray to the Father alone then why is he including his name in the supplication of prayer WITH GOD? This is “shirk” (associating partners with God or Allah) according to Islam for no creature can answer prayer but God!

 

Moreover, performing something in someone else's name has two implications. First, it is the authority of another person that allows someone to perform the work. In other words, it is because someone else authorized you to take these actions that you are able to perform them; a person is not doing them in his own authority. For example, when David fought Goliath he came unto him "in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied" (1 Samuel 17:45). He was not coming in his own power or authority but in that which belonged to God alone. This gave David the authority and ability to fight against the giant Goliath… and win!

 

Second, when you come in someone’s name, you come in his stead. The person to whom you come is expected to respond to you, not on the basis of who you are, but on behalf of the one you represent, in whose authority you have come. They are to treat you as they would treat the one who authorized you to come. For instance, when David sent servants to Nabal to ask for food, “they spake to Nabal according to all those words in the name of David” (1 Samuel 25:9). Therefore, when Nabal insulted David's servants (who came in David's name) he insulted David just as if he had spoken directly to his face.

 

Hence, the apostles performing miracles and having their prayers answered in Jesus’ name shows that Christ is God and coequal with the Father. This is because the name of Jesus carries an authority which only God has since he alone is capable of answering prayers and can empower persons to perform miraculous feats. As for his usage of John 17:3, Mr. Eldin seems actually quite ignorant of what Jesus’ words truly mean:

 

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 'Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." John 17:1-5

 

Let’s point this out:

 

"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had WITH YOU before the world began." John 17:5

Jesus claimed to have the very same glory that God himself had before the beginning of creation. Moreover, what Mr. Eldin will be shocked to know is that Jesus even gives God a command. In his high priestly prayer, Jesus commands the Father to glorify him with the glory Christ had with him before he became flesh:

"And now, Father, GLORIFY ME (Greek- doxason Me) in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." John 17:5

The phrase, "glorify me" is a Greek imperative, with the word "glorify" being in the aorist tense. Noted Greek Grammarian Dr. Daniel B. Wallace comments on the Greek imperative with the aorist tense:

"The imperative is most commonly used for commands, outnumbering prohibitive imperatives about five to one. As a command, the imperative is usually from a superior to an inferior in rank. It occurs frequently with the aorist and present (only rarely with the perfect tense).

The basic force of the imperative of command involves somewhat different nuances with each tense. With the aorist, the force generally is to command the action as a whole, without focusing on duration, repetition, etc. In keeping with its aspectual force, the aorist puts forth a summary command..." (Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics [Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids MI, 1996], p. 485; bold emphasis)

As Wallace noted, the imperative is a command usually given from a superior to an inferior in rank, but not always. In the case of John 17:5, it is two equals addressing each other. The very reason why Jesus can demand to be glorified by the Father is because Christ is equal to the latter in his Divine nature, being fully God also. This is why Jesus emphasized the following:

only true God, and Jesus Christ

To place Jesus on the very same level and rank of God Almighty is blasphemy in Islam. For more information on this point please go here: http://answer-islam.org/OnetrueGod.html

He continues:

He wrote:

Moreover, these believers invoked Jesus for favors and healing in the same manner that the saints of the OT beseeched Yahweh:

"Save, O LORD, for the godly one is gone; for the faithful have vanished from among the children of man." Psalm 12:1

"But you, O LORD, have mercy on me; raise me up, that I may repay them." Psalm 41:10

"Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I call to you all day long." Psalm 86:3, cf. 123:3

"O LORD, save us; O LORD, grant us success." Psalm 118:25

"And when he got into the boat, his disciples followed him. And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was being swamped by the waves; but he was asleep. And they went and woke him, saying, 'Save us, Lord; we are perishing.'" Matthew 8:23-25

"And Peter answered him, 'Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water.' He said, 'Come.' So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, 'Lord, save me.' Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, 'O you of little faith, why did you doubt?'" Matthew 14:28-31

"And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, 'Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.'" Matthew 15:22

"And behold, there were two blind men sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was passing by, they cried out, 'Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!' The crowd rebuked them, telling them to be silent, but they cried out all the more, 'Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!'" Matthew 20:30-31

 

My response:

Sam Shamoun compares Gods power with the God-given powers that Jesus had. Shamoun propably never read the following passages of the NT:

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Also:

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

The quotations that Shamoun gives illustrate the help that people wanted was the miracles of Jesus, which God did by him. Therefore God was the source not Jesus.

 

Response:

 

Mr. Eldin apparently doesn’t understand the context of John 5:30, since if he had simply bothered to read a couple of verses beforehand he would have discovered the following:

 

Jesus said to them, 'Very truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, THE SON DOES LIKEWISE. The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished. Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, SO ALSO THE SON GIVES LIFE TO WHOMEVER HE WISHES. The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, SO THAT ALL MAY HONOR THE SON JUST AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.’ John 5:19-23

 

Much like the Father, Jesus is able to give eternal life, raise the dead and judge all men. In order for Jesus to be able to do all the works that his Father can do he must be God since the Father does things that only God can do. This very passage presents further problems for Mr. Eldin because Jesus claims that:

 

FOR THE FATHER JUDGES NO ONE, BUT HAS COMMITTED ALL JUDGMENT TO THE SON, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Matthew 5:22-23

By focusing on John 5:30 Mr. Eldin failed to see that in the context Jesus claimed to be the eschatological Judge, a function which equates him with God according to both the OT and the Quran! Both of these Scriptures say that God will judge mankind on the last day. In fact, here are some references from the Quran that say Allah and Allah alone will judge on the Day of Judgment:

The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (to stand) upon." Yet they (profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; BUT ALLAH WILL JUDGE between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment. S. 2:113

Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto Me, and I WILL JUDGE between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. S. 3:55

(These are) the ones who wait and watch about you: if ye do gain a victory from Allah, they say: "Were we not with you?"- but if the unbelievers gain a success, they say (to them): "Did we not gain an advantage over you, and did we not guard you from the believers?" BUT ALLAH WILL JUDGE BETWIXT YOU on the Day of Judgment. And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers. S. 4:141

 

According to the OT it is God who will gather the nations in judgment, separating them as one separates the sheep from the rams:

 

"As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats." Ezekiel 34:17

 

"In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land... Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side." Joel 3:1-2, 12

 

Now compare this with what Jesus says here:

 

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world'... Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' Matthew 25:31-34, 41

 

Jesus is performing the same function that the OT says Yahweh will perform!

 

Now that we have looked at the context of John 5:30 we can better understand the point Jesus was making: The reason why Jesus couldn’t do anything on his own is because he works in perfect unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit since all three are equally God in nature, having the same infinite power to accomplish all that they desire.

 

As for Eldin’s usage of Acts 2:22, it only gets worse for him since the context of this specific text reveals several truths about Jesus which Islam denies. Let us highlight them:

 

"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, PUT HIM TO DEATH BY NAILING HIM TO THE CROSS. BUT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. David said about him:

   "'I SAW THE LORD always before me.
      Because he is at my right hand,
      I will not be shaken.
 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
      my body also will live in hope,
 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
      nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
 You have made known to me the paths of life;
      you will fill me with joy in your presence.'

 

"Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. Acts 2:22-34

 

Now Mr. Eldin is trying to use Acts 2:22 to disprove the divinity of Jesus; however this very same passage contradicts Islam on the issue of the crucifixion of Christ! It is very amusing for Muslim propagandists to use passages which disprove their own religion in trying to convince others to believe it!

 

Amazingly, Mr. Eldin doesn’t see the ramifications that this passage has in refuting his case regarding the use of “Kyrios”. Quoting David in Psalms 16:8-11, Luke uses the word “Kyrios” in the place of YHWH, the divine name of God from the Hebrew OT:

 

I have set the LORD (YHWH - Hebrew) always before me. BECAUSE HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, I will not be shaken. Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest secure, because you will not abandon me to the grave, ^[c] nor will you let your Holy One ^[d] see decay. You have made ^[e] known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand. Psalms 16:8-11

 

We need to help Mr. Eldin see that “Kyrios” in the context of Acts 2 refers to the covenant name of God Almighty!

 

Hence, if Mr. Eldin wants us to understand from this verse that Jesus performed the “miracles and other acts only through God” then he must also believe that in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ! He must further believe that Jesus is the exalted Lord of all who sits enthroned at God’s right hand:

 

“For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’ Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both LORD (Kyrion) and Christ.” Acts 2:34-36

 

It is obvious from the foregoing that Mr. Eldin needs to leave religious debate alone; he is drowning and needs a life raft to rescue himself from his stupidity!

 

He wrote:

The NT further says that every knee will bend to Jesus as Lord just as they do to Yahweh:

"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." Isaiah 45:22-23

"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:9-11

 

My response:

Did Jesus said these words? Of course not. Again Shamoun quotes from the doctrine of Paul not from the words of Jesus. Jesus said:

 John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Note: The words “worshippers” and “worship” is wrongly translated. The Greek word is “ “ proskinite” and “ proskinisousin” which the true meaning in English is “ those who prostrate” ( proskinite) and “ to prostrate” (proskinisousin). 

Therefore, Jesus said to prostrate to the Father not to him. Jesus never said “I am your God” and never said “worship me”.

 

Response:

 

Actually quoting from the doctrine of Paul is quoting the words of Jesus since Jesus said in Acts:

 

BUT THE LORD SAID TO ANANIAS, 'Go! THIS MAN IS MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT TO CARRY MY NAME before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.'

 

What makes this even worse is that Mr. Eldin makes some false claims regarding the meaning of the Greek words that John 4:23 uses for worship. Here is what the word for worshipers is:

 

Proskunetes

 Definition

a worshipper (http://www.biblestudytools.net/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4353&version=kjv)    

 

Now look at the definition for worship:

 

Proskuneo

 Definition

1.       to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence

2.       among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence

3.       in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication

a.       used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank

1.       to the Jewish high priests

Word Usage - Total: 60

worship 60 (http://www.biblestudytools.net/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4352&version=kjv)

 

Mr. Eldin can’t tell the difference between up or down on this one! The NT uses Proskunetes to mean worshiper and Proskuneo to denote worship.

 

Even if he tries to use the “prostrate, not worship” argument notice what the Quran says about this issue:

1. [2.125] And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and: Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying: Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.
2. [9.112] They who turn (to Allah), who serve (Him), who praise (Him), who fast, who bow down, who prostrate themselves, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits of Allah; and give good news to the believers.
3. [22.77] O you who believe! bow down and prostrate yourselves and serve your Lord, and do good that you may succeed.
4. [26.219] And your turning over and over among those who prostrate themselves before Allah. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=prostrate&size=All)

 

It is very obvious that prostrating, even in the Quran, is an act of worship!

 

Since we’ve shown extensively throughout this article that Jesus is identified as God, even using the very verses which Mr. Eldin raised to refute this essential Biblical truth, we will now show where Jesus accepted worship and even commanded the people to worship him as God:

 

And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, AND WORSHIPPED HIM. Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me. Matthew 28:8-10

 

The word for “All Hail” in Greek is chairo and is used in salutations. What makes this rather interesting is that the women disciples didn't return Jesus’ greeting but worshiped him instead. And once we examine the use of the Greek word we can appreciate why they responded in this manner.

 

The word “hail” is used for majestic figures such as kings just as the following examples demonstrate:

 

Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, HAIL, MASTER; and kissed him. Matthew 26:48-49

 

And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe, And said, HAIL, KING OF THE JEWS! and they smote him with their hands. John 19:2-3

 

The Jews even used “hail” to mock Jesus before his crucifixion for claiming to be Christ, the King.

 

Hence, this word "hail", which is chairo in the above examples, indicates that this is a sign of reverence shown to a king. What this implies is that Jesus’ use of this word was intended to draw his disciples to worship him as their risen Lord and King; he wasn't simply greeting them but calling their attention to the fact that they were in the presence of One who is the Sovereign Lord of all creation. This explains why they responded in worship since this is the only appropriate response to One who is a majestic Divine being!

 

He wrote:

There are other factors which further substantiate that the NT writers were identifying Jesus as Yahweh when they called him Kurios or Lord.

For example, like Yahweh Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings:

"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes." Deuteronomy 10:17

"Give thanks to the Lord of lords: His love endures forever." Psalm 136:3

"and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood," Revelation 1:5

"They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14

"On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." Revelation 19:16

 

My response:

Where it says that Jesus is God of Gods as the O.T God describes himself? He can be lord of the lords, which can be also translated as the most respectful personality but not God. Anyway again Shamoun fail to quote Jesus. Does Jesus said “I am the Lord of the Lords”?OR, the King of the Kings? Moreover, if there is such a quotation it does not mean that he is God.

 

Response:

 

Mr. Eldin never ceases to amaze me. After being shown that God is called King of Kings and Lord of Lords he absolutely ignores these titles and proceeds to demand that someone show him where Jesus actually says this! But wait, this isn’t enough, even if Jesus had said this himself, Eldin would still claim that “it doesn’t mean that he is God”, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A TITLE USED FOR GOD TO SHOW THAT HE THE SUPREME OWNER AND RULER OF ALL CREATION. He is basically admitting that no matter what is shown to him he still won’t believe it. This further demonstrates that he is lying when he says that he wants to be shown where Jesus said it since he will still reject it anyway!

 

Ladies and gentlemen do you see how stupid and deceitful these evil Muslim propagandists are? They demand evidence of the contrary and then they discard it just because they want to believe what they want to believe. So let’s make this easy for Mr. Eldin. He claims that:

 

Anyway again Shamoun fail to quote Jesus. Does Jesus said “I am the Lord of the Lords”?OR, the King of the Kings?

 

Since these titles are found all over the book of Revelation for God, we are going to point Mr. Eldin to the very first verse:

 

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is the one who READS the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is WRITTEN IN IT, because the time is near.” Rev. 1:1-3

 

“I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: ‘WRITE ON A SCROLL what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.’ I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone ‘like a son of man,’ dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I WAS DEAD, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. WRITE, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.’” Rev. 1:9-19

 

According to the very introduction to the book itself John is recording THE VERY WORDS THAT THE RISEN AND EXALTED JESUS GAVE HIM TO WRITE DOWN AND PASS ON TO THE CHUCHES! To further drive this point home, here are some additional passages:

 

"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." Rev. 22:16

 

He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! Rev. 22:20

 

Now let us compare what the OT says about Yahweh with what Jesus told John in Revelation: 

 

Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, AND HIS REDEEMER, the LORD of hosts: "I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

 

Here in Isaiah, YAHWEH and HIS REDEEMER claim to be the first and the last and that there is no other God besides either one.

 

Did Jesus say something similar to this in John’s Apocalypse? He sure did:

 

"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." Rev. 22:12-16

Here, Jesus is claiming to be the first and the last just like God did in the Old Testament! Both the NIV Bible Dictionary and the New Bible Dictionary expound on the usage of "alpha and Omega" and the usage:

Combined with alpha (omega) it signifies completeness, as from "A to Z" in modern usage. SO GOD IS THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End (Rev. 1:8), AS IS ALSO CHRIST (21:6, 22:13). COMPARE ISAIAH 41:4, 44:6. (New International Bible Dictionary, J. D. Douglas & Merril C. Tenney, Alpha, 1987, pg. 36)

 

And,

This juxtaposition of the first and last letters of the Gk. alphabet, corresponding to the Heb. aleph and taw, is used in Rev. alone AS A SELF-DESIGNATION OF BOTH GOD (REV. 1:8, 21:6, WHERE 'THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA' IS EXPLAINED BY THE PARALLEL' THE BEGINNING AND THE END') AND CHRIST. THE SON'S DIVINITY IS CONFIRMED BY APPLYING TO HIM WHAT IS SAID OF THE FATHER. In each of these dynamic and comprehensive activity OF GOD OR CHRIST IN CREATION OR SALVATION. (New Bible Dictionary, J. D. Douglas & F. F. Bruce, Alpha & Omega, p 26)

 

This is just one of the many explicit claims to Deity made by the Christ himself.  What more do we need to say at this point?

 

He wrote:

Like Yahweh, Jesus has prophets who prophesy in his name:

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:19-22

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" Matthew 7:21-23

 

My response:

Amazingly the quotation that Shamoun posted is against all of the Christians that say that Jesus is Lord ! Read carefully on Jesus words where he will insult the Christians and drive them away for the reason that they call him Lord!

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" Matthew 7:21-23

Therefore, Prophesizing in the name of Jesus and calling him Lord is a sin according to Jesus and Christians that they commit this sin are evildoers.

 

Response:

 

Mr. Eldin tries to correct Sam Shamoun on Matthew 7:21-23 by claiming that calling Jesus Lord is a sin according to Jesus himself. However the verse says:

 

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven

 

Notice that he says “not everyone,” and didn’t say not “all” who calls him Lord. If this referred to everyone who called Jesus Lord then why does Jesus say in this very same passage,

 

MANY WILL SAY TO ME on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?

 

If this referred to all who called him Lord then why does Jesus only say “many”? Why did he further say in a similar context,

 

“Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”? (Luke 6:46-49 – cf. Matthew 7:24-27)

 

This shows that Jesus wasn’t prohibiting people from calling him Lord, but prohibiting individuals from calling him their Lord without obeying him as Lord.

 

And here are some additional examples showing that Jesus accepted the title Lord for himself:

 

I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." Matthew 12:6-8

 

No prophet would ever dare say that he is the Lord of the Sabbath or claim to be greater than God's Temple. The only person who is sovereign over the Sabbath and greater than the Temple of God is God himself! Thus, for Jesus to say that he is greater than the Temple and Lord of the Sabbath means that he truly believed he was God in the flesh! In other words, Jesus was claming that he is the visible appearance, the very human manifestation of Yahweh God, the One for whom the Temple was fashioned.

 

This point is brought out more clearly from Jesus' own words elsewhere:

 

"As John's disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: 'What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings' palaces. Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: "I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you."'" Matthew 11:7-10

 

Jesus claims that John is the Messenger that Malachi had predicted would come to prepare the way for the Lord:

 

"'See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,' says the LORD Almighty." Malachi 3:1

 

According to Malachi John was sent to prepare for the appearance of the Lord of the Temple. Seeing that Jesus is the One whom John prepared the way for, this makes Jesus Yahweh God, that he is actually the very One for whom the temple had been erected!

 

Now if Jesus didn’t believe he was God while knowing that this passage from Malachi referred to the coming of Yahweh God to the Temple, then why would he identify John the Baptist as that messenger who was to prepare for Yahweh’s appearance when he knew that the Baptist was sent to prepare the way for him? The only way that he could make this identification between John and the messenger of Malachi 3:1 is if Jesus believed that he was indeed Yahweh God, the very Lord of the Temple that the Baptist came to make the way for!

 

And here is a final example of someone calling Jesus “Lord” without Christ rebuking them for it:

Jesus said to her, "I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE. He WHO BELIEVES IN ME, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and BELIEVES IN ME shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world." John 11:25-27

Notice that this is blasphemy according to the Quran! Jesus didn’t say to simply believe him but TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN HIM AS THE VERY RESURRECTION AND LIFE, two functions and titles which belong to God alone!

 

He wrote:

And just like Yahweh Jesus is the Sovereign Lord of all:

"To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it." Deuteronomy 10:14

"See, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth will go into the Jordan ahead of you… And as soon as the priests who carry the ark of the LORD -the Lord of all the earth—set foot in the Jordan, its waters flowing downstream will be cut off and stand up in a heap." Joshua 3:11, 13

"Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.’" Matthew 28:18

"You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all." Acts 10:36

"If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living." Romans 14:8-9

 

My response:

Shamoun quoted Jesus by saying:

 

"Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.’" Matthew 28:18

 

Exactly! The question is WHO gave him this authority? The answer is GOD if Jesus was God then he would already had this authority. Every time that Shamoun quotes Jesus, supports the Muslim view. Thank you Shamoun. The quotations from the books of Acts and Romans are irrelevant because these are not the words of Jesus.

For more information read:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/jesus_sending_prophets.htm (dealing with the prophets of Jesus)

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/jesus_being_given_all_authority.htm (Jesus given all authority makes him God?)

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/is_jesus_yahweh.htm (Is Jesus Yahweh?)

 

The rest of Shamoun article is irrelevant because repeatedly he quotes the words of Paul and not the words of Jesus. The important points are addressed. Jesus it the Prophet and the messenger of God. He is not God !

And Allah the true God knows best !

 

Response:

 

Mr. Eldin believes that Jesus can’t be God simply because “something” was given to him by God, such as authority in this instance. Apparently he is ignorant of this verse:

 

All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them." John 17:10

 

According to Jesus, everything that God has also belongs to him. This would make him equal with God! This is blasphemy according to Islam. For more on this issue please read the following article: http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_authority_given.htm

  

What’s even more problematic for Mr. Eldin is the fact that while Jesus has the Father to give him something, Allah, on the other hand, is said to be an heir even though he is supposed to be a unitarian deity:

 

"And certainly We! We it is Who give life, and cause death, and We are THE HEIRS." S. 15:23

"Lo! We, only We, inherit the earth and all who are thereon, and unto Us they are returned." S. 19:40

Who is Allah receiving something from and why does he need to inherit anything when he is supposed to be the creator and owner of everything that exists? We’ll leave that for Mr. Eldin to figure that out.

 

In light of the above, it is absolutely amazing that Muslim propagandists such as Mr. Eldin are quick to throw out such arguments against Christianity which can be used more forcefully against Islam. Since Islam suffers from the same problems which Muslims raise against Christianity can we expect that Mr. Eldin will now abandon his false religion and false prophet? We seriously doubt that he is honest and consistent enough to do so, to reject Allah and his false prophet.

1. Home Back Home
2. New Articles Back to New Section