Suffer the
little Children, help the Women!
Quennel Gale
Here
we will focus on an ongoing debate between Sam Shamoun of www.answering-islam.org and Sami Zaatari of www.answering-christianity.com dealing with the issue
of violence in both the Bible in the Quran. Zaatari’s article can be found
here:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/counter_rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_1.htm
Before
we begin we must start by saying that we, unlike others, don’t have a problem
with God bringing judgment upon unbelieving civilizations that refuse to adhere
to his commands and his servants. We understand the clear fact that the Lord
God is the all-merciful God who loves all of his creation but we also
understand that this same God of mercy is also a God of justice. Modern
civilization tries to impose its current thinking upon God in trying to say
that he is vicious to unbelievers without failing to take in the context and
scope of the particular situation.
Even
in today’s modern society, many of those who accuse God of such vile actions,
would themselves find certain actions justified. For example:
- If
a country is attacked by another country, retaliation is considered
justified and usually necessary if possible.
- One
is usually not held accountable if they take someone’s life, out of the
fear of being killed by that person.
- In
war, the killing of women and children, although unacceptable, is usually
tolerated if kept to a minimum since collateral damage is impossible to
avoid every time.
There are many more examples we can give but these will
suffice for now. One issue we want to look at during this on going debate
between both Mr. Shamoun and Mr. Zaatari is the issue of children being killed.
We begin with Mr. Zaatari’s comments here:
My Response
To begin with, we cannot even
compare the OT and the Quran when it comes down to wars. The OT commands you to
go kill women and children, and also to show no mercy on them whatsoever. The
Quran however never commands us to go kill women and children in war, in fact
it tells us to fight for the oppressed women and children, the prophet Muhammad
also forbade the killing of women and children.
Here is a slight example of
why we cannot compare the OT with the Quran when it comes down to wars:
Deuteronomy
Chapter 2
32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his
land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then
Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the
LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all
his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed
the men, and the women, and the
little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer,
which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the
river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our
God delivered all unto us
Now let us see what the Quran says:
004.075
YUSUFALI: And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those
who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children,
whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are
oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us
from thee one who will help!"
So does anyone else see the
difference? The Bible commanded people to kill women and children, the Quran
commands people to fight for women and children. Big difference between the
two.
Also from my standpoint, I
never feel that I have to justify the Islamic wars fought during the time of
Muhammad by bringing up the OT; the reason to this is because I do not feel
there is anything slightly wrong with what Muhammad did during the wars. The
same cannot be said for the OT, the Christians must have to justify every war
in the Bible as it allowed the killing of women and children.
As I said, the prophet
Muhammad forbade the killing of women and children:
Volume 004, Book 052,
Hadith Number 257.
Narrated By 'Abdullah :
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's
Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.
Volume 004, Book 052,
Hadith Number 258.
Narrated By Ibn 'Umar :
During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so
Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.
From reading these hadiths,
what exactly do I have to justify or defend? The prophet Muhammad said DO NOT
KILL women and kids. - http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_47.htm
Again, please see our position above at the beginning of
this paper. Our focus is to deal with the fact of whether killing children is
allowed in Islam. According to Mr. Zaatari, such actions are wrong and contrary
to Islam, even though we find many instances of children being killed in
bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan which are predominately Muslim countries. The
perpetrators even find ways to justify these actions and show no sympathy at
all. Mr. Zaatari resorts to using these hadiths, which he feels is enough to
prove his case:
Narrated
'Abdullah:
During some of
the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle
disapproved the killing of women and children. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number
257)
Narrated Ibn
'Umar:
During some of
the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle
forbade the killing of women and children. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number
258)
However he seems to be ignorant of the fact that Sam
Shamoun already discussed this very same issue and refutes these hadith:
As a side note, this statement is a third party report. We do not have
the exact words of Muhammad to evaluate them at this point. Yet there is a
narration in Sunan Abu Dawud where Muhammad is directly quoted:
Narrated Rabah
ibn Rabi':
When we were with
the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) on an expedition, he saw some people
collected together over something and sent a man and said: See, what are these
people collected around? He then came and said: They are round a woman who has
been killed. He said: This is not one with whom fighting should have taken
place. Khalid ibn al-Walid was in charge of the van; so he sent a man and said:
Tell Khalid not to kill a woman or a hired servant. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 14, Number 2663)
- http://wwww.answering-islam.org/Responses/Abualrub/terrorism2.htm
Mr. Shamoun is correct in claiming that there is no exact word of
Muhammad prohibiting killing of women and children, so the issue isn’t as
clear-cut as Mr. Zaatari would have you to believe. Shamoun proves this case
from the very same Islamic sources, added emphasis ours:
HOWEVER, there are certain other narrations that permit the killing of
women and children, specifically during
Muslim raids where they attack unsuspecting victims at night:
Narrated As-Sab
bin Jaththama:
The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked
whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the
probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women
and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet
saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His
Apostle." (Sahih Al-Bukhari,
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256)
I.e., they are all the same—both the women and children are nothing
more than pagans! The above narration is repeated in several, different hadith
collections:
Chapter 9:
PERMISSIBILITY OF KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN THE NIGHT RAIDS, PROVIDED IT IS
NOT DELIBERATE
It is reported
on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be
upon him), when asked about the women
and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They
are from them. (Sahih Muslim,
Book 019, Number 4321)
Keep in mind that the subheading is not part of the narration, it is
added by the collector of the hadiths. In
other words, the statement regarding the killing of women and children being
permissible as long as it isn’t deliberate is not part of the narration.
The hadiths do not explicitly say this, and yet the compiler assumed that this
was the clear implication and meaning of these narrations.
It is narrated
by Sa'b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet): Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists
during the night raids. He said: They are from them. (Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4322)
Sa'b b.
Jaththama has narrated that the Prophet (may peace be upon him) asked: What about the children of polytheists
killed by the cavalry during the night raid? He said: They are from them. (Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4323)
Narrated
Samurah ibn Jundub:
The Prophet
(peace_be_upon_him) said: Kill the old men who are polytheists, but spare their
children. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 14, Number 2664) (Ibid)
As you can clearly see, killing children and women is permissible in
Islam. Mr. Zaatari is wrong because he is arguing from the belief that this
prohibition is absolute when Islamic sources clearly show that there were
certain cases in which it can be done and is actually encouraged. If you look
at Muhammad’s response, he wasn’t overly concerned that women and children died
among the pagan population, he only claimed, “oh well, they are apart of them”,
in other words, guilty by association. Taking the hadiths Mr. Zaatari used in
his defense along with these hadiths, logically we must conclude that killing
of children is permissible in special circumstances.
Apparently Mr. Zaatari has never seen this article or purposely
overlooked it. Whatever the case, by virtue of his own words, he has condemned
Islam and Muhammad. Notice how he argued against Mr. Shamoun about this same
issue in the OT:
My Response
First two responses are in
order. Firstly, whether these commands that God gave to the Israelites, to go kill
women and children, whether these commands are allowed or not allowed today is
irrelevant. The fact that your God did at one time allow the killing of women
and children is itself bad enough, it seems Shamoun wants us to forget about
the dark history that his Bible contains. The fact is Shamoun’s God did at one
time allow the killing of women and kids, how can we just forget about this?
Secondly, how do you know
these commands are no longer to be followed? Your NT doesn’t even agree with
you:
1- 1- 2 Timothy 3:16 states:
16 All scripture is given by
inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
So the NT says ALL scripture is
God breathed, and this includes the OT. The NT tells us that we should look to
the whole Bible for instruction, doctrine, correction and reproof. So hence
these commands of killing women and kids can still be applied by Christians
today, they could be followed under the category of instruction.
As for the rules of warfare
being binding upon all Muslims in all times, there is nothing wrong with that,
because to start off there is nothing wrong with the rules of war in the Quran.
-http://www..answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_47.htm
From reading his response we clearly find that he considers this a dark
side of God’s character, which is bad enough. Next he argues that there is
nothing wrong with the rules of war in the Quran and Islam in general. Again,
it is very apparent that Mr. Zaatari isn’t as knowledgeable about his own
Islamic history for if he considers what the OT teaches to be wrong, then
Muhammad and Allah would also be condemned as being bad as well! The hadiths that
deal with the night raids and the pagans are a death blow to Mr. Zaatari’s
argument. So if he is worried about Christians killing kids today, then why
doesn’t he have a problem with Muslims doing the same thing also! What’s good
for the goose is also good for the gander! Mr. Shamoun elaborates on this
further:
One Muslim apparently was so troubled by this concession on the part of
Muhammad that he claimed that the killing of women and children was abrogated!
Al-Sa‘b b.
Jaththamah said that he asked the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him)
about the polytheists whose settlements were attacked at night when some of
their offspring and women were smitten. The Prophet (may peace be upon him)
said: They are of them. ‘Amr b. Dinar used to say: They are regarded in the
same way as their parents.
Al-Zuhri said:
Thereafter the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) prohibited to kill
women and children. (Sunan Abu Dawud,
Book 14, Number 2666)
Not all Muslims share al-Zuhri’s conviction. The English translator
makes the following comments regarding the above narration:
2018. This
tradition allows to kill women and children of the infidels IN THE BATTLE. The
other traditions indicate that it is prohibited to kill women and children in
the battle. These CONTRADICTORY traditions have been reconciled by saying that
the tradition of al-Sa‘b b. Jaththamah has been abrogated. The other
interpretation is that it is allowable to kill women and children when the
settlements of the infidels are attacked AT NIGHT, as they cannot be
distinguished from the fighting men in the dark. (Sunan Abu Dawud, English translation with explanatory notes by
Prof. Ahmad Hasan [Sh. Muhammad Ashraf Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters;
Lahore, Pakistan, 1984], Volume II, p. 739; capital emphasis ours)
Ahmad Hasan’s explanation is no excuse and provides absolute no comfort
for the women and children who were killed, or for their surviving families. A
true God-inspired prophet would be more cautious and not allow such night raids
so as to prevent the unnecessary killing of women and children. http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Abualrub/terrorism2.htm
Mr. Shamoun is
totally correct, and using Mr. Zaatari’s logic we must conclude that it is even
worse for women and children to be killed at night, as opposed to the OT when
most wars among the Israelites and their enemies were fought during the day! It
is much more difficult to be careful and avoid collateral damage at night.
However this is the same tactical offensive that Muhammad, the so-called
prophet of Allah, instituted! Since the Quran and Hadith are binding on Muslims
I guess we should deem it okay for Muslims to attack at night and kill women
and children. Mr. Shamoun continues:
Furthermore, Islamic sources provide many examples where Muslims
deliberately and brutally killed women and children. Noted Islamic commentator
and historian Al-Tabari mentioned one:
In this year a
raiding party led by Zayd b. Harithah set out against Umm Qirfah in the month
of Ramadan. During it, Umm Qirfah (Fatimah bt. Rabi‘ah b. Badr) suffered a
cruel death. He tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels
until they split her in two. She was a very old woman.
Her story is as
follows. According to Ibn Humayd – Salamah – Ibn Ishaq – ‘Abdallah b. Abi Bakr,
who said: The Messenger of God sent Zayd b. Harithah to Wadi al-Qura, where he
encountered the Banu Fazarah. Some of his companions were killed there, and
Zayd was carried away wounded from among the slain. One of those killed was Ward
b. ‘Amr, one of the Banu Sa‘d b. Hudhaym: he was killed by one of the Banu Badr
[b. Fazarah]. When Zayd returned, he vowed that no washing [to cleanse him]
from impurity should touch his head until he had raided the Fazarah. After he
recovered from his wounds, the Messenger of God sent him with an army against
the Banu Fazarah. He met them in Wadi al-Qura and inflicted causalities on
them. Qays b. al-Musahhar al-Ya‘muri killed Mas‘adah b. Hakamah b. Malik b. Badr
and took Umm Qirfah prisoner. (Her name was Fatimah bt. Rabi‘ah b. Badr. She
was married to Malik b. Hudhayfah b. Badr. She was a very old woman.) He also
took one of Umm Qirfah’ daughters and ‘Abdallah b. Mas‘adah prisoner. Zayd b.
Harithah ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfah, and he killed her cruelly. He tied
each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to two camels, and they split
her in two. Then they brought Umm Qirfah’s daughter and ‘Abdallah b. Mas‘adah
to the Messenger of God. Umm Qirfah’s daughter belonged to Salamah b. ‘Amr b.
al-Akwa‘, who had taken her - she was a member of a distinguished family among
her people: the Arabs used to say, "Had you been more powerful than Umm
Qirfah, you could have done no more." The Messenger of God asked Salamah
for her, and Salamah gave her to him. He then gave her to his maternal uncle,
Hazn b. Abi Wahb and she bore him ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Hazn. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, translated b
Michael Fishbein [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany 1997],
Volume VIII, pp. 95-97)
Al-Tabari also mentioned that Muhammad had the young boys of the Jewish
tribe of Banu Qurayzah beheaded:
The Messenger
of God had commanded that all of them who had reached puberty should be killed.
(The History of Al-Tabari, Volume
VIII, p. 38)
Another source tells us how they determined whether a person had
reached puberty:
Narrated
Atiyyah al-Qurazi:
I was among the
captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who
had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not
killed. I was among those who had not grown hair. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4390)
Not only were the young boys of the tribe beheaded, but the Muslims
also beheaded one of their women:
According to
Ibn Ishaq, the conquest of the Banu Qurayzah took place in the month of Dhu
al-Qa‘dah or in the beginning of Dhu al-Hijjah. Al-Waqidi, however, said that
the Messenger of God attacked them a few days before the end of Dhu al-Qa‘dah.
He asserted that the Messenger of God commanded that furrows should be dug in
the ground for the Banu Qurayzah. Then he sat down, and ‘Ali and al-Zubayr
began cutting off their heads in his presence. He asserts that the woman whom
the Prophet killed that day was named Bunanah, the wife of al-Hakam al-Qurazi-
it was she who had killed Khallad b. Suwayd by throwing a milestone on him. The
Messenger of God called for her and beheaded her in retaliation for Khallad b.
Suwayd. (The History of Al-Tabari,
Volume VIII, pp. 40-41)
Narrated Aisha,
Ummul Mu'minin:
No woman of Banu Qurayzah was killed except one. She was with me, talking and
laughing on her back and belly (extremely), while the Apostle of Allah
(peace_be_upon_him) was killing her people with the swords. Suddenly a man
called her name: Where is so-and-so? She said: I. I asked: What is the matter
with you? She said: I did a new act. She said: The man took her and beheaded
her. She said: I will not forget that she was laughing extremely although she
knew that she would be killed. (Sunan Abu
Dawud, Book 14, Number 2665) (Ibid)
As you can see
here, Muhammad beheaded women, children and whoever he could get his hands on.
And Mr. Zaatari has the audacity to be angry with the OT! This information
comes from the Hadith and authentic Sirah literature in Islam and is known by
scholars of Islam worldwide. Even if Mr. Zaatari tries to find a way to wiggle
out of it by saying it isn’t necessarily true then the onus is on him to show
us different traditions of the same event that have been proven to be correct
and not just give us the same old, “I don’t believe this hadith or narration”
jive. This amuses us when Muslims try to criticize other religions when they
don’t even believe the authentic sources of their very own religion! How
laughable!
Mr. Zaatari is dead
wrong, emphasis on dead, about Islam and the killing of women and children.
Apparently he hasn’t studied his religion real well. Even outside of night
raids, we find this about killing children in Islam:
This tradition
has been narrated by the game authority (Yazid b. Hurmus) through a different
chain of transmitters with the following difference in the elucidation of one
of the points raised by Najda in his letter to Ibn Abas: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the
children, so thou shouldst not kill them UNLESS YOU COULD KNOW WHAT KHADIR HAD
KNOWN ABOUT THE CHILD HE KILLED, OR YOU COULD DISTINGUISH BETWEEN A CHILD WHO
WOULD GROW UP TO BE A BELIEVER (AND A CHILD WHO WOULD GROW UP TO BE A NON-BELIEVER),
SO THAT YOU KILLED THE (PROSPECTIVE) NON-BELIEVER AND LEFT THE (PROSPECTIVE)
BELIEVER ASIDE. (Sahih Muslim,
Book 019, Number 4457)
This is simply
amazing! In Islam you are allowed to kill children if you believe that they will
grow up and become unbelievers! This leaves the entire discretion to the person
who is deciding to kill the child in question! An unbeliever is one who doesn't
want to follow Islam! What if the Muslim made a mistake killing a child who may
look like a disbeliever but may actually grow up to be a believer in Muhammad?
It would be too late to try to then bring the child back from the dead.
Hence, in orthodox
Islam, not the so-called radical or fanatical Islam, a Muslim can kill an
innocent child if it is deemed as being necessary for the betterment of Allah's
society! Now we know why the terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center and
the Pentagon had no ill feelings about the acts they committed, which in turn
took the lives of innocent children. They were just being obedient to the laws
and regulations of Islam! Here is an example from a loving Muslim family and
their child:
In Nov., 1989, a Palestinian
Muslim and his wife, murdered their own 14 daughter. Their daughter HAD NOT
LIVED ACCORDING TO THEIR VIEW OF ISLAM. Finally, the father and mother assaulted the girl.
The mother held the girl down while the father stabbed her to death. Unknown to
this Muslim family, this man was under investigation by the FBI, and a bug had
legally been planted in the house. The entire murder was called on tape. As the girl struggled and begged her mother
to help her, the father said in Arabic, "DIE, DIE QUICKLY, DIE QUICKLY”.
(People magazine, 1/20/92)
What is even more
disturbing about this is the fact that this family murdered this girl not in a
war but in regular civil life. Hence, according to Islam killing children who
are deemed as prospective disbelievers can be done anywhere! Isn’t this great?
Not if you are the child who suffered cruelly at the hands of his/her parents.
Now Zaatari may
call into question the above narration regarding killing children on the
assumption that they may turn out to be unbelievers. In case he does we only
need to remind him of what Mr. Shamoun had quoted from the Quran:
"So they journeyed
on till when they met a young boy; he
slew him. Moses said, ‘What! hast thou slain an innocent person without his having slain anyone! Surely, thou
hast done a hideous thing’ ... ‘And as for the youth, his parents were
believers, and we feared lest on growing
up he should involve them into trouble through rebellion and disbelief;’"
S. 18:74, 80 Sher Ali
As Mr. Shamoun
stated regarding this text:
Moses' companion justifies the killing of a young innocent boy on the
grounds that the boy may have grown
up to be a rebellious unbeliever. Hence, if Zaatri has issues with the Holy
Bible he needs to take issue with his own book which condones the killing of a
young boy who may have, or may have not, grown up to be a disbeliever. Since
Allah had a man kill a boy, which obviously included some kind of violence and
pain, would Zaatri now say that his god is cruel and a bloody murderer?
Thus, these Quranic
texts substantiate the hadith that Muslims can kill children on the mere
suspicion that such children may grow up to be unbelievers! In fact, this very
hadith mentions the name Khadir which is the name given to this very same
person in Surah 18 who killed the innocent child!
Finally, Mr.
Zaatari complained about the doctrine of original sin, saying that it is not
fair that others are blamed for the sins of Adam and Eve in the garden. It is
beyond the scope of this paper to defend such a doctrine, but what we would
like to do instead is to further expose Mr. Zaatari’s complete ignorance of
what even his own false prophet and false religion teach about this issue.
But the Satan
made them both fall from it, and caused them to depart from that (state) in
which they were; and We said: Get forth, some of YOU being the enemies of
others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a
time. Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented
toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful. We said: Go down, ALL OF
YOU, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and
whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall
they grieve. S. 2:36-38
We see from the
above text that Adam’s sin clearly impacted all future generations of mankind
since in Arabic the YOU in both 2:36 and 38 is plural (more than two), as
opposed to the dual. We know that at least in Sura 2:38 the plural cannot be a
reference to Satan since he stands condemned to hell and will not follow the
guidance which will come from Allah. Therefore, it is quite obvious that the
plural is addressed to all of mankind, that humanity suffered expulsion due to
their federal head, Adam, a point reiterated elsewhere:
God said, `Go
forth, some of you will be enemies
of others. And for you there is
an abode on the earth and a provision for a time.' S. 7:24
Ibn Kathir stated
regarding 2:38-39:
Allah informs of
His warning to Adam, his wife and Satan, THEIR OFFSPRING, when he ordered THEM
to descend from Paradise. He says he will send messengers with Scriptures,
signs and proofs… (Tafsir Ibn Kathir,
Part 1, Surah Al-Fatiah Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 1 to 141, Abridged by Sheikh
Nasib Ar-Rafa‘i [Al-Firdous Ltd., London: Second Edition 1998], pp. 109-110;
capital emphasis ours)
Here also are the
late Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s comments on Sura 2:36:
… Note the
transition in Arabic from the singular number in ii. 33, to the dual in ii. 35,
and the plural here [2:36], which I have indicated in English by "All ye
people." Evidently Adam is the
type of all mankind, and the sexes go together in all spiritual matters.
Moreover, the expulsion applied to Adam, Eve, and Satan, and the Arabic plural
is appropriate for any number greater than two. (Bold and underline emphasis
ours)
The Quran is
essentially agreeing with the Holy Bible that Adam caused all his offspring to
be expelled from the Garden, a fact that is further confirmed by the following
narrations:
Narrated Abu
Huraira:
The Prophet
said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam!
You are our father WHO DISAPPOINTED US
AND TURNED US OUT OF PARADISE.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah
favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for
you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me
for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?'
So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses," the Prophet added, repeating
the Statement three times. (Sahih
Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 611: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/077.sbt.html#008.077.611)
Abu Huraira
reported that God’s messenger told of Adam and Moses holding a disputation in
their Lord’s presence and of Adam getting the better of Moses in argument.
Moses said, "You are Adam whom God created with His hand, into whom He
breathed of His spirit, to whom He made the angels do obeisance, and whom He
caused to dwell in his garden; then
BECAUSE OF YOUR SIN caused MANKIND to come down to the earth." Adam
replied, "And you are Moses whom God chose to deliver His messages and to
address, to whom He gave the tablets on which everything was explained, and
whom He brought near as a confidant. How long before I was created did you find
that God has written the Torah? Moses said, "Forty years." Adam
asked, "Did you find in it, ‘And Adam disobeyed his Lord and erred’?"
On being told that he did, he said, "Do
you then blame me for doing a deed which God had decreed that I should do forty
years before He created me?" God’s messenger said, "So Adam got
the better of Moses n the argument." Muslim transmitted it. (Mishkat Al-Masabih English Translation With
Explanatory Notes by Dr. James Robson, Volume I [Sh. Muhammad Ahsraf
Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters, Lahore-Pakistan, Reprint 1990], p. 23;
bold and capital emphasis ours)
Yahya related to
me from Malik from Abu'z-Zinad from al-Araj from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger
of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Adam and Musa
argued and Adam got the better of Musa. Musa rebuked Adam, 'You are Adam WHO
LED PEOPLE ASTRAY and brought them out of the Garden.' Adam said to him,
'You are Musa to whom Allah gave knowledge of everything and whom he chose
above people with His message.' He said, 'Yes.' He said, 'Do you then censure
me for a matter which was decreed for me before I was created?'" (Malik's Muwatta, Book 46, Number 46.1.1:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/046.mmt.html#046.46.1.1)
This Ayah
mentions the great honor that Allah granted Adam, and Allah reminded Adam's
offspring of this fact. Allah commanded the angels to prostrate before Adam, as
this Ayah and many Hadiths testify, such as the Hadith about the intercession
that we discussed. There is a Hadith about the supplication of Musa, "O my
Lord! Show me Adam who caused us and himself to be thrown out of Paradise.'' When
Musa met Adam, he said to him, "Are you Adam whom Allah created with His
Own Hands, blew life into and commanded the angels to prostrate before?'' Iblis
was among those ordered to prostrate before Adam, although He was not an Angel.
(Ibn Kathir on surah 2:34; http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1629;
bold and italic emphasis ours)
These narrations
further complicate matters. It blames Adam’s sin and subsequent expulsion on
Allah’s predetermined decree, that Allah had already predestined that Adam
would fall from favor. Here again is Ibn Kathir’s commentary, this time regarding
2:37:
… Narrated
Sufyan At-Thawri quoting ‘Abd al-‘Aziz Ibn Rafi‘ that someone heard Mujahid
quoting ‘Ubayd Ibn ‘Umayr as saying that Adam said: "My Lord, is the sin I
committed one that was destined for me before You created me or is it something
I brought upon myself?" Allah replied: "I preordained it upon you
before I created you." Adam said: "Lord forgive me it as You
have preordained it upon me". The narrator said, hence the verse <Then Adam received words from his Lord,
and his Lord relented towards him.>. Narrated al-‘Awfi, Sa’id Ibn
Jubayr, Sa’id Ibn Ma‘bad and al-Hakim quoting Ibn ‘Abbas: Adam said to Allah:
"Have You not created me with Your own hands?" The answer was yes.
Then he asked: "And You have breathed into me of Your spirit?" The answer
again was yes. He added: "And You decreed for me to do this?" Yes
was the answer he received. He said: "If I repent, will You send me
back to Paradise?" Allah said: "Yes." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa’i, p.
106; underline emphasis ours)
Thus, if Zaatari
has a problem with the Bible’s teaching on original sin then he must surely
have problems with the Quran and the hadiths of his false prophet since they
both taught something similar!
In light of the
above, we have sufficiently shown that Mr. Zaatari is entirely wrong on Islam
and the killing of children and, in particular, women. We will continue to
watch closely the ongoing debate between Mr. Zaatari and Mr. Shamoun. Mr.
Zaatari stated:
So Shamoun has clearly
failed to answer anything. He only further strengthens our arguments!
In turn we can
state:
So Zaatari has
clearly failed to answer anything on child and women killing. He only further
weakened his argument!
- Home Back Home
- New Articles Back to New
Section