If Jesus wasn't crucified, what really did happen? [1]

salam alaykum:

anno@domini.org wrote in message <7h9u45$r95$1@waltz.rahul.net>...

>Regarding Muslim interpretations of 4:157, Mr Lomax said in this >newsgroup: > >>"The Qur'anic account does not actually say that Jesus, AS, did not >>die. It merely says that he was not killed or crucified by the Jews, >>and it repeats that they did not kill him. But it adds that "shubbiha >>lahum," which I read as "it appeared to them," i.e., that it appeared >>to them that they killed him.

The correct sequence of statements in 4:157-158 is:

1. He was neither killed nor crucified 2. It only appeared to them that they killed and crucified him 3. They have no certainty that they killed him.

The Pickthall translation states:

"And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's Messenger -- They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain, But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever mighty, wise."

>>In fact, it would not be a difficult reading of the verse (4:157) that >>Jesus actually went through death on the cross but was then returned >>to life.

The above clearly contradicts the explicit premise that he was not crucified. "They neither killed nor crucified him." (wa ma qataluhu wa ma salabuh). It would be an impossible reading of the verse to claim that it means he "went through death on the cross" when he never went to the cross in the first place.

GF Haddad Qasyoun@cyberia.net.lb

ZAhmed30 <zahmed30@aol.com> wrote in message <7huano$2it$1@waltz.rahul.net>...

>All Muslims agree that the Jews did not succeed in killing him, though they >sure tried to. Some seem to think that he was not even placed on the cross. I >consider that he was placed on the cross, but did not die on it. The word >"salaba" in Arabic refers to "death on a cross", not mere placement on it.

It would follow that the Qur'an is repeating itself: "and they did not kill him, nor did they kill him on the cross."

This would violate the Qur'anic principle of mughayara or semantic differentiation. If the Qur'an states "A and B" then A is necessarily different from B according to mughayara. It is a good idea to approach Qur'anic interpretation through the sciences and rules that were developed to help us achieve it.

A second proof against the above misinterpretation is that the whole point of the denial is that Allah did not let his Prophet be subjected to infamy. The latter does not reside in being killed -- as other Prophets were killed -- but in the modality of being displayed on a pole like a criminal. Lapidation (stoning) is ruled out for the same reason.

A third proof is that, to my knowledge, the imams of commentary have not mentioned the hypothesis that `Isa himself was placed on the cross as a possibility. So it is a fabrication disguised as a statistical remark that "Some seem to think that he was not even placed on the cross." The real stat would be that some seem to think that he was actually placed on the cross.

A fourth proof is that in Arabic usage salb or crucifixion does not denote death on a cross -- contrary to what is being claimed above -- but only hoisting or being hoisted up on a cross or plank or pole for the purpose of defamation and humiliation.

Abu Nu`aym in Hilya al-Awliya' (1985 ed. 10:154=1997 ed. 10:161) narrates with his chain that when al-Daylami -- one of the early Sufis -- was captured by the Byzantines "he was crucified" (fa salabuh), and "when the Muslims saw him crucified (fa lamma ra'ahu al-Muslimuna masluban) they freed him after a raid and brought him down alive. He came down and asked for water, etc."

Al-Tabari in his history Tarikh al-Muluk wa al-Umam (1987 ed. 5:414) in the chapter of the year 252 describes the events of `Abdan ibn al-Muwaffaq's demise: "He was crucified alive (fa suliba hayyan)... and was left crucified (turika masluban) until the midafternoon prayer. Then he was thrown into jail and remained there for two days. He died on the third. It was ordered that he be crucified again..."

There are also examples using the term salaba or crucify for defamation-displays taking place _after_ the death of the crucified, as alluded to in the Qur'anic sequence: "They never killed him, and they never crucified him."

When Caesar's governor over Amman at the time of the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- Farwa ibn `Amr al-Judhami declared his Islam, he was imprisoned until he died. After his death, he was crucified. Narrated by Ibn Sa`d, Tabaqat (7:435) May Allah be well-pleased with him, he believed in the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- in the Prophet's time, yet never met him, like Uways al-Qarani.

In the hadith of Salman al-Farisi about the corrupt episcopus of the Syrian church who died, then it was discovered that he had amassed a treasure out of the people's alms, Salman narrates: "They said we shall never bury him. Then they crucified him on a plank and stoned him." Narrated by Ibn Sa`d, Tabaqat (4:77), al-Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad (1:167) and Ibn Kathir in al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya (2:311).

In 231 Imam Ahmad ibn Nasr al-Khuza`i -- may Allah be well-pleased with him -- was decapitated in Samarra. "When his head was brought to the authorities [in Baghdad], they [literally] crucified it (salabuh)." Al-Khatib, Tarikh Baghdad (5:179). It is evident that the meaning here is "They displayed it on top of a pole."

In 317 the caliph al-Muqtadir's chamberlain, Nazuk, was killed then crucified as stated by Ibn Kathir in al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya (11:159 Dar al-Ma`arif ed.): "They went to Nazuk and killed him while he was enebriated, then they crucified him" (thumma salabuh).

So the focus in crucifixion is not on execution but on advertising defamation. In the above examples the maslub or crucified may or may not be dead but in the event he is dead, his death is immaterial to the definition or connotations of crucifixion.

This holds in non-Arabic languages as well. Paul of Tarsus in his Espitles turned the established defamation-symbol of crucifixion into its contrary with the rhetorical figure of the "glorious infamy" of the Cross of Jesus. This is a peculiarly Christian anthem celebrated in all the languages of Christian literature, distinct from the death-and-resurrection topos of ancient pagan cults.

Thus the most accurate English meaning of the Qur'anic statement in Arabic "wa ma qataluhu wa ma salabuhu" is "Whereas they never killed him, and they never hanged him up on the defamation-pole." And Allah knows best.

To conclude I repeat what I had said in a previous response on SRI:

[Subject: Re: If Jesus wasn't crucified, what really did happen? Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 09:00 AM

The correct sequence of statements in 4:157-158 is:

1. He was neither killed nor crucified 2. It only appeared to them that they killed and crucified him 3. They have no certainty that they killed him.

The Pickthall translation states:

"And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's Messenger -- They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain, But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever mighty, wise." ... It would be an impossible reading of the verse to claim that it means he "went through death on the cross" when he never went to the cross in the first place.]

--

GF Haddad Qasyoun@cyberia.net.lb